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Which fly fishing rod casts the longest distance? Is the 10ft rod better than the 9ft 6" rod for making long distance casts in reservoir fishing? Or does the rod action make the difference? Is the faster action better? Or is it the make/quality of the rod the deciding factor? (Assuming I am a perfect caster of course..lol)

I have been having trouble casting with a fly fishing rod? When I cast the line it doesnt land in a straight line and doesn't go far enough. I have motion down but I just cant seem to get the line straight or far enough. This is for the upcoming trout season. please help.

Information on a Gunnison Oneida fly fishing rod? I picked up a Gunnison fly fishing rod that came in a aluminum canaster. The rod is marked Gunnison # 4 and also marked Tonkin Cane. On the aluminum canaster it has a label on it that says... The Gunnison Select Quality Split Bamboo. Fly casting rod # 4 . Length 9 feet and weight 5 oz. Oneida Tackle. Made in the USA. Also what looks like.. For the discriminating Angler. I am wondering if anyone might know how old this rod is and is there any value to it. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks Norm

How do you cast with a fly fishing rod? Ive been fly fishing for like a month now and ive caught bass, and some big bluegill. But i dont know if i casting right, Do any of you guys have good tips for casting with a fly rod? Im a beginner so dont get to complicated. Or if you have a GOOD quality video that will help to! And also my fly rod was given to me by my grandpa after he passed away so its like 40 years old, and im thinking of buying a new rod and reel combo. Do you have any suggestions on good rod and reel combo that could land bass,bluegill, and maybe even steelhead or pike?

Help on picking out my first fly fishing rod? I'm an absolute beginner at fly fishing....I have just barely gotten the hang of casting and how to catch a fish...but now I want my OWN gear. I've only been on two fly fishing trips with others and I think I'm ready to head off myself once in a while. The thing is, I would like to get a nice, decent rod for a good price. Do you have any suggestions? I have been told that those fly fishing kits you can buy are absolute crap. All your answers were excellent!! I'm gonna have to let the public vote on this one... thanks for your help!!!!!

HELP through the BS and PR of Fly Fishing? So many kinds of pole, rods, system..... how dose anyone know what is best for their style of FLY FISHING?? Moreover dose it matter than the fly and presentation? I thought fishing for wild trout was hard enough!! Trying to learn and understand what is truth verves…… Marketing, PR, and BS is far to hard for me!! Is anything true or really make any differences? What Fly rod and line i.e. balanced system is good for small trout on small rivers? Fly Fishing: Fly fishing rods are thin, long, flexible rods sometimes made of bamboo, but mostly from man-made materials. As their name indicates, fly rods are designed to cast a fly (or flea as our mentor used to say). Instead of a weighted fishing lure, a fly rod uses the weight of the fly line for casting, and lightweight rods can cast the very smallest fly (or flea). Fly rods tend to have a single, large diameter line guide, with a number of smaller looped guides placed along the fishing rod to help control the movement of the thick fly line.

can i put a regular fishing spin cast reel on a fly rod? i saw a very long fly rod at dicks, and it looked like i could put a regular reel on it down at end...would it work? thanks. the reel i have in mind has a lever for your index finger to release the line instead of a button on the back.

did sage -- make one fishing rod -- for both fly and spin casting?

I just go a fly-fishing rod, any tips for fishing for trout? Yea, well i just want some tips for fishing trout, like what flies to use, i know how to cast and how to fight a fish, so, please help.

Can you assemble a fly fishing rod outfit by using components from different manufacturers? In a couple of places I've read something to the effect of having a "properly balanced rod" and using leaders and fly line from the same manufacturer because they will have the right amount of bend (flexibility) and will transfer energy better while casting. I do understand that for a 6 weight rod I should use a 6 weight line, but can I use a fly line from say Orvis, on a rod made by Sage using a reel made by XYZ? Along the same lines, I know that some stuff in fly fishing has been standardized. Can one use spools from a different manufacturer on a reel from another?

first time fly fishing rod and reel kit combo need help!? i just bought my first fly fishing kit thing it comes with a 2 part rod a reel some flys this rope like stuff , like clear line, and other plastic like line i need a website or something to help me spool it i no how to spin and bait cast and spool them and Ive been for about 10 years i just decided to try this but im very lost i just wanna no how to set everything up.

How to set up a fly rod? Bassmaster993, If you are out there, Pheasant Tail asked me to add this to my answer of your question about which line to use for bass fishing. I was away from my computer fly fishing for Coho salmon at Tofino, British Columbia. Your question closed so I couldn’t add it to my answer. I thought if you are reviewing these questions you may run into this one. Hope you have a great bass fishing trip. Larry How to set up a fly rod-------------- Can you go to a person who knows what they are doing to get help? If so, I would strongly recommend it. Otherwise, give this a try. You need to learn it anyway. Did you buy a package deal, that gave you a rod, reel, backing, line, leader and flies? Or, did you buy separate pieces. If you bought the package deal, then everything should match up, however I have seen some all-in-one outfits that were not fit to be called fly rods. If you bought separate pieces, then I hope someone guided you through the purchases. Like is the fly rod the size (as in the weight of the rod, not the actual weight (yes, here is where you start scratching your head trying to figure out what I am saying) but the indicated weight of the rod. Like is it a 5 weight or a 6 weight, or did you buy a specialty rod, like a 2 or 3 weight or a 8 or 9 weight? What kind of fish you are going for, is the determining factor in what size rod to buy. Then your reel has to match up fairly close to the rod. Reels are sold with designators indicating that they are for a 5 or 6 weight or a 7 to 8 weight or a 2 to 3 weight rod. This is important. You can not use a 2/3 weight reel on a 6 weight rod. The line will totally fill the reel and there will be no room for backing or anything else. Also, the reel helps balance the rod while you are casting. So, if you have an ultra light reel on a heavy rod, the balance of the reel is going to be way up the rod somewhere, not down at the cork handle you are holding on to. That means you will have a hard time casting and wear yourself out faster than you should. So, let's hope the reel matches the rod. Eric is right, use the Arbor knot to tie on the backing to the center spool of your reel. But first, do you want to reel this in with your right hand, thus holding the rod with your left hand, or do you want to reel it in with your left hand holding the rod with your right hand? I am going to assume you are right handed, if not the question simply needs to be reversed. With small fish you can get away with casting with your strong hand and then switching the rod over to your other hand to reel in the line when you have a fish on. However, if you are going after big fish, then it is best to hold the rod with your strong hand and reel with your other hand, since it is your strong hand that has to hold the rod during the fight. Your muscles and mind-hand coordination are better with your strong hand. Stop right here: You want to have at least one guide to put your backing through before you tie you it to the reel, so make sure you thread the backing and later the line through a guide. Some rods require you to put two pieces together to get a guide to use. The line has to come off the bottom of the reel. Let's say you are right handed and decided to reel in with your left hand (best choice). Tie the backing on so the line comes onto the reel from the bottom front and wraps up behind the reel then back out the top front, tie your arbor knot. Reel in all of your backing if it is a complete outfit, otherwise you will have to play around with finding the right amount of backing. The papers that came with your reel should tell you how much backing in 20 pound Dacron or 30 pound Dacron your reel will take, but how are you to know how much you have reeled on? (I usually take my reel to my local fly shop and have them load it for me). The backing serves two purposes. First, it helps fill the reel with line so your fly line does not have to be wound up in such small circles (that really causes a problem with the line). Also, if you hook into a big one or hook a tree or rock then you have some extra line to play with to get to shore or back up to where you snagged up the line. Fly lines are expensive and you do not want to be loosing those. Eric is right, the nail knot is an excellent knot to use to tie the backing onto the fly line. In fact, once you learn to tie the knots, then you can tie two nail knots in a row onto your fly line. If the first nail knot should fail, the second one should hold. Below are some websites you can go to in order to learn to tie the knots you need to learn. Practice with some string, two different colored ones if you can, and learn how to tie the knots we mention. You now have the backing tied onto your line. Usually there is a little tag that mentions which end should be tied to the backing. If not, then if you are using a weight forward line, the backing gets tied to the end that has the really long and slender line. The other end has a very short slender line then very quickly thickens up, then slowly thins back down. That is the end you tie your leader onto. So, tie your backing onto your fly line and now you need to reel it in. I prefer to take a small long box and punch a pencil or small 1/4 inch dowel through one side, push on your lines plastic holder then push the pencil out the other side. Now your line will come off the spool nice and straight and not twist on you. Once you have reeled in all the line, now you will find out if you used too much backing because your line will not fit smoothly onto the reel. Best bet, strip your line out, and then take off some backing, cut it and tie the line back onto the backing and reel it in again. Now you come to your leader. It has a loop on it you said. That makes it handy, but then you have to have a loop on the line or you can not use it. Some lines being made now have loops built into them. If you do not have one of those, then the best thing you can do is tie a short piece of mono onto your fly line then tie in a loop at the other end. For now, use the nail knot to tie the mono to your line. The thicker the leader, the fewer the wraps you need to form a nail knot, but the rule of thumb is 4 or 5 turns. You can buy a nail knot tool, I would strongly recommend it, and it makes tying nail knots super easy with just a little practice. The key to any nail knot is to pull the tag end of the leader quickly and smoothly. If you go slow you end up with a horrible looking knot. If you practice ahead of time, you will tie a good looking nail knot. For a short piece of mono I have often just cut off a foot of my leader, the thick end, and tied it to my line, then tied in a small loop using a Perfection Loop knot. If the leader came with a loop, then you have a built in loop, but you will then have to tie a Perfection Knot loop back into your leader. It is important that this short, 4 to 5 inch piece of leader be just about as thick as the line, you can not use a real limp and small size piece of mono. If you do you will not be able to transfer the power of the cast into your leader. If you are going to tie on a tippet to the other end of the leader I suggest learning the Blood Knot or the Improved Surgeon's Knot. The blood knot may be the best one to use. When putting the rod together, line up the guides and push the pieces together with an equal amount of pressure from both hands. The guides have to line up for proper casting. After an hour or so of casting, make sure you test the sections to keep them from slowly coming apart. Now tie on a small piece of yarn and learn how to cast. Here are three sites you can go to and learn about knot tying for fly fishing. I really love the Animated Knots by Grog site, the first one listed. Good luck. Larry http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/knots/table.php http://www.flyfisherman.com/skills/lkknots/index.html

Can I fly fish with a regular rod? I have the fly fishing reel, but just a regular bait casting rod. Can i use both of them together to fly fish?

Is a 7/8 weight fly rod and reel appropriate for what I am using it for? I have been fly fishing for a little over a year now, and I bought a scientific anglers bass rod and reel. It is a 7/8 weight reel and rod. I use it on the main branch and the north branch of the ausable river in the northern part of the lower peninsula of michigan for trout fishing. I use the normal flies for that area, and normally only fish between dawn and dusk. I have been catching small to medium sized fish, and the rod casts well, and it is alright for handling fish that I am catching. I was wondering if I should buy a new rod and reel combo, with a lower weight when I can afford one (I am wanting to learn how to tie flies, and I was saving for a kit), but I am only 15, and I just started fishing. Should I get a lower weight rod, or wait?

Which one of these fly rods would be best for trout fishing? Im gonna buy my dad a fly fishing rod for christmas and these are available to me and in my price range: http://sporting-goods.shop.ebay.ca/Rod-Reel-Combos-/33973/i.html?LH_BIN=1&LH_PrefLoc=3&LH_IncludeSIF=1&_fln=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=40&_udhi=150 which would be best for 2-5lb rainbow trout out of large lakes where casting distance is fairly important. I dont know much about what makes a good fly rod so if I could get some suggestions from that list that would be great. Thanks a lot!

What would your fly fishing advice be if you were standing next to me? I bought my first cheap fly rod today and took it out to the Farmington river in Ct. My casting needs a lot of work but I love it already. I need all the advice I can get though, so if you were with me on my next trip what advice would you offer.

What is the best bait and stradegy to use when fishing for trout with a cast & reel rod? Going Oct. 9th...? I thought you could only catch trout on a fly rod but then I heard that you can on a cast & reel rod too, So Im leaving to go on the 9th of Oct, 2010 and need to know what I should pick up as far as bait, line (lbs test) and any other advice I can get about river fishing for trout this time of year with a cast and reel rod. Thanks!

How bout this --- fly fishing with *bait* and catching a mess of fish!? saw an old guy yesterday with a fly rod about 6 and half feet or maybe 7 feet long. he had some mono tied on the fly line...only about 3 feet. no tippet. then on the mono "leader" he had a very little brass hook like a salmon egg hook. He smashed bread on the hook and was fly casting, but only about 10 feet literally right in front of his feet. he was fishing on the shore at a little pool on the river that had small bass and perch.... he was catching left right and center. when the bread got soggy and fell of, he'd just put some more on..... never saw anything like it!

A question about "non-traditional" fly fishing? I have a setup that I use with a regular spinning reel and rod and a dry fly. I cast the fly over tules and lilly pads in fast moving streams, let the bail free and wait for a top water strike or I use them for trolling shallow waters at really slow speeds. It works fairly well (not as well as traditional fly fishing i'm sure, but nevertheless, I catch fish). I am going to the Merced River in the Yosemite Valley in a few days and I have to use barbless hooks so I will be grinding down some of my dry flies but I just went and got some barbless wet flies. The guy at the store told me that if I am going to use them with a spinning rod (I was surprised he didn't kick me out of the fly fishing shop for the question) that I should tie one fly about 12 inches up from the tag and then another fly about 5 inches below the first. Then put a small split-shot at the end of the tag and tie a knot to stop it from moving or falling off. Does anyone else have any tips or experiences with fishing flies on a spinning rod? I would go get a fly rod, but I can't afford it at this time and I don't know how to fly fish with a fly rod. Thanks.

Fly casting + leader knots: Read on...? I am a relatively inexperienced fly fisherman having a casting problem. I took lessons last year, I have been fishing with a fly rod for about a year and I have logged hundreds of hours on the water to this point. This weekend I was traveling and had the opportunity to do some fishing along the way. For some reason, I was creating horrible twists which eventually got bad enough to create knots in my leader and tippet. I am not talking about getting an occasional wind knot or a little knot from bad casting, it was twisting badly enough that it was consuming 6 inches to a foot of leader/tippet and it was happening after 12-15 casts. My question is: Does anyone know what I was doing wrong to cause this severe of a twist? I literally went through 3 leaders in a half hour span at one point. I have not run into this problem before. The problem typically happened when I was fishing a Light Cahill Spinner in a fairly large size, they were taking sizes 12 and 14 very eagerly. I was using a 6X leader/tippet combo on a 5wt rod. I tried switching to a 5x then a 4x leader and tippet with the same results. I also tried different brands, so it wasn't like I had a bad batch of leaders or tippet. I do not normally have the opportunity to throw that large of a fly and I was also casting pretty consistently to the distance limits of my abilities. Anyone have any suggestions of what my problem might have been? UPDATE: Great answers and it led me to do some research this afternoon. (It was just another excuse to go fishing really.) I believe the first answer is correct. The big issue is indeed the fly. Here are my steps and results: 1) I started today with a big Elk Hair Caddis, I figured that the big wing would stabilize the fly somewhat when it was in the air, and began casting as far as I possibly could. Kept it up for about a half hour, no issues. 2) I switched to the same Light Cahill I was using over the weekend, within 5 minutes, I was knotted horribly again. 3) I then tied on the same pattern of Cahill in a smaller size, bought at the same shop and time as the big one. (presumably by the same tyer.) The small fly produced the knots, but not as badly. 4) I tied on the same pattern of Cahill, but one that had been bought at my home fly shop, I had no problems. I did make things worse by speeding up my casts but I believe the bigger cause was the fly.

How far can you cast a slow action fly rod without getting tailing loops? I've only been fly fishing for a couple of years and my casting is average at best. I have a medium action rod and when I try to cast more than about 50ft of line I start getting tailing loops. I have heard it's easier to cast further with a fast action rod without getting tailing loops as the rod doesn't overload like it does with a slower action rod. So my question is is there a limit of line you can cast properly with a medium action rod? Or are there difference that can be made to your casting stroke that allow you to cast a medium action rod 80-90ft without getting tailing loops? i'm not sure I can find expert fly fishing advice here but I thought it's worth a try. Thanks to anyone who offers quality advice on this issue.

Where do I begin with fly fishing? I really want to get into fly fishing. I have spin fished since I came out of the womb and never really gotten into casting flies. I have zero knowledge on it. I have zero gear and no idea where to start. I am going to attend a beginner's class at my local Orvis outfitter's store and I expect them to tell me a ton. I just can't wait for the class in a week. Anyway, any and all info welcome! I need some lists of rods and reels, line, and any other gear I should know about! Thanks!

what is fly fishing?????? what is fly fishing? what is: a fly line? a leader? casting? a rod? anglers? flies? trout rivers? please include sources!

What kind of fly rod should I use? I frequently fly fish down behind my house in the creek that runs there. I often get bites but I have yet to land a fish. My biggest problem though is the confined space I find myself in. The overgrowth on the side of the river always seems to be just close enough to catch my line in the back cast. Im using a 9 foot rod should I go shorter or change my technique?

Want to purchase a fly rod? I want to get into fly fishing. I took an afternoon course in casting in the parking lot of Bass Pro Shop. Found it lots of fun. Problem is I don't want to be sold a ton of things I don't really need, and I want quality w/o going into debtor's prison. What would recommend for a newbie with a budget of $300 to $500? Looking for a one size fits all category. I would be fishing in the shallows of Florida's Mosquito Lagoon and the Keys.

I need help with Tapered leaders/Fly fishing Q's? I just got a fly fishing rod and when i tryed to get my tapered leader out of the pack, i got it tangled and screw up. I know the "tapered leader" helps get the fly as far as it can from the fly line. Since i didn't have anything else i just tied on 4lb trilene of about 7 foot. when i cast with it, it completely gets the fly as far away from the fly line with the line given. So if i can do that, can i fish with it and have success or not?

FLY FISHING: what is the best balanced rod> reel> line> combination? eg SAGE TCR 9 FT ORVIS REEL CORTLAND LINE I go fishing on a 25 sq acre lake for rainbow trout. I find constant casting abit tedious so I am looking for a rod that is powerful and easy to cast with. Will be grateful for any advice.. Price does not matter..! Thanks in Advance.. e.b I currently have all the tackle except a rod.Last one broke after a fight with a fly caught on a ankor rope I am basically looking for something that is easy to cast and that cast long distances with a straight leader. I would like somebody to suggest the perfect balance/combo that will be a good allrounder for every condition...eg windy etc. I do mainly lake fishing off a boat. I hear the sharkskin lines are awesome so I might invest in one. Thanks for your answers.

New to fly fishing any help??? Ive been fishing for 12 years and never switched from a spinning reel, but i just pickt up a fly rod and reel.. I really no nothing of fly fish but at the least i can cast with it, i will be fishing for pan fish and largemouth bass... Anybody have any tips or flys or poppers to use any info will help and be appreciated

Can I fish with flies on a normal rod? Im going fishing this weekend on vacation and I would really like to use hand made flies as lures, but I don't have a fly rod. So I would like to know if I can use my normal bass fishing rod with flies as a lure? (I am just letting them float downstream I barley need to cast)

Why do a lot of anglers own so many fishing rods and reels? The only factors I really consider when purchasing a fishing rod/reel is length, strength, and reel ratio. I usually get the longer fishing rods it adds more distance when I cast and as of the reel it depends on what kind of retrieve I would prefer. However, I think just any rod/reel will do A 5 foot rod can cast about 80% of a 6'6 rods distance. A 3.2 :1 versus a 5.2:1 reel would reel in about 60% as quickly as the 5.2:1. So why do experience anglers tend to have so many rods/reels in their arsenal it does the same job, except that some are a little better than others. I only 3 fishingrods and 1 fly fishing rod About the changing lures I just use a swivel. It is very efficent Hergie you are right, but whenever I look back I feel guilty that I do use them all. Came you have a good point that is way I have several rods. 1 for trout , 1 for catfish, 1 general purpose, and 1 fly rod Fun you have a good point also, but I hike a lot .Therefore I carry light mobile equipment. Usually my trips compose of 1 rod and 2 max Martin, youre right but I prefer higher ratios. It allows me to quicky reel them in but it is harder to present some lures PD if I was in a tourament of course. I would spend 500 bucks on fish equipment and bring home that 10 g purse Charles Sloan haha. I pick up that disease and paid for it. 75% of my inventory went out to family because I couldnt use them all Chimp , one of the best fishermen I knew was a very honest guy. Thanks Gold if I can truly give out more best answers I would certainly make sure you were one. I forgot about the lure size and action. You are correct abou tthe swivel and I will pay more attention to that Mike were in the same profession but have different ownership values. I just give the ones I dont use away unless there were alot of good memories. For example I lost one of my rods to a snapping turtle. I was pissed and came back the next day hopeing he might return it. Then I found a rod right next to a tree, it looks like someone left it there. I still have that rod today and slayed many catfish and trout with it Brandon, after looking at your impressive list I dont feel too bad. I dont think a lot of people can out fish you Pooh , it seems like you can fish like you have 10 arms Bobber, it looks like you can put on 12 different baits. Fish I am guessing you have many rods too. bringing different baits is always a plus Gone , that is very true. Yes I do believe our strive to improve and shopping addictions created this Fish K, you nail it right on the spot . Down to every last bit of detail. Dont worry they will come back. We just need to get more people to ask intermediate to advanced questions more. Seriously I was about to walk away from this section. I know it sounds weird but that fishing spirit always bought me back here as it did with the others. They are here. However, if it wasnt we probably wouldnt be here. It was you that was always here and for that I do thank you

A fly rod question.........? I have went out fly fishing for trout a few times with my brother. I was using his old rod whis isn't very good. And i found casting hard. I recenty got a new tip flex viper rod 9.5ft. But i have yet to use it. People say that tip flex rods are for experianced casters. Is this not the right rod for me ? thanks.

I need Fly fishing help!? I just got a fly rod from my wife for our anniversary, and I know nothing about flyfishing(or spin casting for that matter). The kit I got says it has everything I need to hit the water today. But I have to tie all the lines together, and to the reel. I'm not scared of knots, but don't know which of them to use. I went to a fly fishing demo a couple of years ago, and think I remember the idea of how to cast. But I'm lacking in experiance. Are there any Fly fishing sites designed for beginers. Not sites telling you how to land the big one, or how to tie flies like a pro, but something for a person a little wet behind the ears to get a start?

What is the basic setup for saltwater fly fishing? I've have some experience fly casting in freshwater for trout but want to transition into shore line fly fishing for striped bass. I was wondering what number WT Rod I need & size reel. Also what kind of backing & wt line either sinking or floating. I'm looking for a basic setup since I'm on a budget. Any recommendation will do & also what kind of fly lure do people recommend. If possible let me know what your current setup so I can get a general idea what to shop for. Thanks

When is the best time to fly fish in CT and how should i fresh water fish for bluegills, bass, and trout? ? ITs november and im not sure (being a beginer fly fishermen) when the best time to fly fish is.My friend and i want to go fishing at his small pond. He ses there are bluegills bass a few trout and he ses " one other kind of fish" Im love fishing and I would say im priddy good but im not sure wat to use this kind of year if i want to catch the bigger bass or maby the trout. someone once told me when it gets cold you should fly fish for the trout is this true? Should i bother bringing my Fly rod or my spin casting rod? What should i do?

Fly fishing smallmouth bass? Can you fly fish for smallmouth bass on a 4 weight rod? I realize its not going to be the best for casting the large flies typically associated with bass fishing but will it be strong enough not break on medium sized bass? If the fish is too big I could just break off the tippet but I need to know if I will be doing that often.

How do I fix a broken graphite fly rod? During a move, my graphite fly rod split near the top. The peaces fit together well enough to glue but I dont thing glue will hold if I have a big fish on... or even repeated casts. Is there some way to fix it, maybe glue and a brace or something?

FLY FISHING HELP! Looking to get a fly reel... Which one? I own a H. L. Leonard Rod Co. Fly rod. It's 8' in length, 3-1/2 oz, says it supports #6 or 7 line. I've been told by my buddies that it would be a good thing to get a thick reel (whatever can hold a lot of line). I've also been told that it will help with casting if I get line one size bigger than is recommended by the rod. - Which reel should I get (around $50)? Any companies particularly good? - What should I look for in a good reel? - What weight/size line should I get? Any brand better than another? Please let me know the knowledge you all have about my questions. I look forward to learning more about the sport.

2 fishing questions about fishing? where can i get a good fly fishing rod and which is eaiser learning to bait cast or to learn how to fly fish

Weights and measurements of fly fishing? I am writing a paper on how fly fishing is related to physics and need some averages in order to do calculations. Average length of rod. I came up with 8.5 feet. Does this seem accurate? Average mass of rod? Measured in grams, kilograms, or pounds. Average mass of line and fly? Average time it takes to move wrist 45 degrees during cast? Average time line is in the air - measured from after wrist movement is done until the fly hits the water? Thanks!!

Can someone recommend a good fly fishing line? I am a beginner at fly fishing and am going to be using a 5 wt. rod and fish for mainly bass and bluegill. I think I have found a good line but it is a 6 wt. bass bug line and I am wondering if this would work alright and if there is anything better. Also I am wondering what the heaviest fly a X4 leader could use before it starts to make casting hard. Thanks. (Line:http://www.fishwest.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=flyshop&Product_Code=RI30BASS&Category_Code=rio)

Is weight of the fly a better indicator of which tippet size to use rather than the size of the fly? I was using a size 12 BH Pheasant Tail Nymph today with a tapered leader ending in a tippet size of 3x. According to the formula that I got out of my Orvis book, the approximate size of the tipper = size of fly / 3. So in my case that comes out to 12 / 3 = 4. So a 4x tipped should have been able to support that fly, but I was still using a tippet size higher than that - a 3x, so that really really should be able to handle the weight. Yet, I was having problems casting. The leader would not unfold properly to lay the fly smoothly on the water. Instead the fly would just kinda plop to one side and the leader would unfold like 90%. Also on short casts I noticed that the fly seemed to be pulling on the leader; as in the leader would unfold completely in the air, and the fly travelling with good momentum then pull on the leader, jerk in the air, and then just fall down in the water. It seemed as if it was controlling the leader instead of the leader controlling it. So my question is, that is it possible that a Bead Head fly in size 12 actually weighs more like size 8 or something and therefore one should use a heavier tippet? (As opposed to a size 12 without a bead head, which would actually be truly a size 12) And if so, then that formula that I've been using - fly size / 3 = tippet size - does not work for beaded flies and only works for dry flies. Other details about my outfit: 4wt floating line, 7 feet rod, leader length 6.8 feet (tapered leader with 3x tipped tied on with Surgeon's Knot) Also, what about the scenario where I'm using a wet fly but then I add split-shot to the leader. Should I use a tippet which would account for the extra weight being casted? Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated :) [fly fishing, casting, tippet size]

what are some good techniques to catch trout? I'm fishing the Bow River in Alberta from shore. The area that I will be fishing has primarily rainbow trout and the average size is 1-3 lbs. There is a bait ban in the river so no bait of any kind can be used. I will be spin casting and don't have a fly fishing rod. Does anyone have any tips on lures or techniques to use to catch rainbows from shore? thanks

What fly rod is better for me, the Orvis Helios or Zero Gravity? I need a rod that is light enough so i can fish around 6 hours without getting tired, but has backbone enough that it can cast far into the wind.

How do I cast a shooting head fly line? I have been fly fishing for about 4 years now and I have never needed a shooting head until now. I am fishing a lake from shore with a nice drop off about 50-70' out. Most of the guys out there fish a shooting head. 8wt rod 27' sinking shooting head with 70' tangle free running line. Curious...would I cast it the same as my regular line?

Fly fishing question? Could i use a regular lure on my fly rod such as a yozuri or x rap?? Or could i use a hook and worm??? And what a good not expensive line that a beginer would be able to cast further?????

Fly Fishing Help? When I cast, my fly line always seems to bundle up the farther away it gets from my rod. Please help me correct my problem. (Any other tips concerning casting greater distances would be helpful) Thanks!

Fly fishing leaders? Where do I start? I am brand new to fly fishing. I just ordered my first rod from Cabelas and am waiting for it's arrival. However, before it gets here I would like to know what I'm doing before I get out on the water. After watching some videos I think I have the basic idea of casting, stripping, and shooting, I just need to practice, but I'm kinda confused about the leader. What is it? How do I attach it? How do I make my own? Is it a different line than what's on the reel already? ( I assume it is) Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I do get on the water often for bass fishing I'm just trying Fly Fishing cause it has always interested me and I would like to try catching fish a different way. Thanks for the help!

Tips and tricks for fishing for catfish? I'm going to be going catfishing in the coming weeks, and I'm inexperienced at catfishing. I'll be primarily fishing with a rod and reel, although I have a couple of jug systems that I may or may not use. I've read up on my state regulations (Texas), and know how to legally fish those should I decide to do it. I'm trying to decide what time of day to fish, what to use as bait, what hook to use, and how to rig my line. My rod is a 7' casting rod, and I'll probably re-string it with some 12# or heftier braided line. What are the tactics that give you the best success when catfishing? Do you fish your bait on the bottom, or keep it suspended? I'll likely be fishing from a large reservoir with negligible current and rocky drop-offs about 10 or 15 feet out. Shad aren't abundant in my lake, but minnows are. I have a wide variety of cat tackle that I've tried with no success: Circle hooks, treble hooks, paste stinkbait rigs, etc. I've tried paste/dip stink bait, dough bait, minnows, and live sunfish so far, but with no luck. The only cat I've ever caught was on a fly rod using a wooly worm while fishing for bass! Any tips you may have on what's worked for you (not so much what you've heard secondhand) would be appreciated, in as much detail as you can give. Thanks for answering!

fly fishing..just started. I need a bit of help? Ok, well I just bought a 5/6 weight rod 8' and a 5/6 weight fly reel. I added a 5 lb fly line to the reel. Ok, what exactly is this set up for? What can I cast? are they meant for something heavy? what size hooks/flies can I use on a 5lb line? size 12? size 20? whats even the difference? I live in south florida, so I mostly fish blue gill, bass, and some other fish of small breed. I am just pretty confused on what to use, what they are for. I bought some minnows out of hair thats about 2in long, since with reg. fishing I catch bass with minnows. Can I use the fly minnow I bought on a 5lb fly line? what is the differnece between 6 7 8 9 lb fly line? do they cast farther?

Does Joe's flies really work? I am going to try fishing with Joe's flies on opening day. Not for a fly rod, but a regular casting rod. I have some of their flies for my fly-rod. Do they casting flies work good too?

Fly Tackle Question?.....? I am relatively new to fly fishing, this will be my second season. I just purchased my second fly rod and need help choosing a line. It is a 6/7 wt rod. I use my fly rod mostly for crappie and sunfish but also trout. I like to cast the tiniest flies up to a Muddler Minnow. I have experience mostly with floating line. What are the benifits of 6 wt vs 7 wt line? Thanks Hey Chadd, thanks for the info. I already have a lighter combo, thats why I went with the 6/7.

Can i put normal weights on a fly rod? I am going to a lake in my boat and i will be trolling up and along the shore (thats where we have cought alot of fish, not able to cast from there its too overgrown). Would i be able to sink the line a bit more witha few weights? I dont got the time to buy heavier fly line... help? :)

Fly fishing fly help---what fly should I use? So I'm going to my friends house tomorrow to do some fly fishing for basically the very first time. My brother and father just now got into fly fishing after doing regular fishing for their entire lives (my dad even went pro in bass fishing) and I think I have caught the fever as well. My dad bought me a rod and reel for Christmas so i'm super excited to start learning. I have the cast, knots, timing, etc. down pretty well. But I do need some help on fly selection. The ponds we will be fishing tomorrow will be somewhat muddy due to rain about a week or so ago. And its pretty much dead winter where I live. The temperature is supposed to be between 30-50 degrees. The ponds are filled with bass, bluegil, catfish, and even a few trout. My question is: What kind of fly hould I use in these ponds? Dry fly? Wet fly? beadhead? etc. Oh yeah, the ponds are about 12' deep max. Thanks for the help.

BIG KAHUNA QUIZ #1: Can you answer these fishing trivia questions? This is Big Kahuna Quiz #1. Winner gets Best Answer AND three fishing flies hand-tied by me. Note -- the “points” mentioned here don’t refer to Y!A points. They’ll be used to tally a score and determine the winner. If you don’t know the rules, e-mail me BEFORE you post your answer, and I’ll set you straight. Remember, early answers get no advantages, so don’t answer hastily. This quiz will be open until the end of Sunday (midnight). You may find some of these questions challenging, but even if you don’t know anything about fly fishing, you can still win this thing with Internet research. GOOD LUCK. 1. This nymphing technique, which employs two or three weighted nymphs and almost no real casting, is named for an Eastern European country where the technique may or may not have originated. For bonus points, name the river in England where this technique took the world stage in 1990 and began to gain popularity. 10 points + bonus 2. Even though it's called a "Little" guidebook, it's 224 pages long; and even though it's full of "golden rules," its cover is actually this color. For bonus points, what are the actual dimensions of the volume? 10 points + bonus 3. Some people can do this with their fingers, but you can also use a special tool -- it’s the last step in most fly patterns. 10 points 4. This term refers to a ceremonial religious scarf that originated in the 1300s, but it’s also a piece of fly fishing tackle. 10 points 5. Named for the river in Scotland where it was developed, this fly fishing method involves long rods and heavy lines cast with both hands. 10 points 6. He never wrote a book, and many anglers don’t know his name, but this secretive New Yorker is widely credited with transforming dry fly fishing in the United States by adapting dry fly patterns from the British Isles. 20 points 7. In order to improve its trashfish reputation, the mountain whitefish (Prosopium williamsoni) has been recently and unofficially given this more tropical, perhaps classier sounding moniker. 20 points 8. In terms of hook anatomy, it’s the place one half the hook-eye diameter behind the hook-eye (the same term also refers to a rather abstract stock market statistic). 20 points 9. Fans of this writer and cartoonist included the founder of Patagonia, who said his 1978 treatise on fly fishing might be the best of its kind for beginning fly anglers. For bonus points, name the treatise. 20 points + bonus 10. This is the term for joining strips of different feathers to make patterns, stripes, and color combinations for wings on traditional wet flies, such as the Green Highlander. For bonus points, name the bird feather (no longer commonly or legally available) with distinctive brown mottling used in many traditional wet fly patterns. 20 points + bonus 11. Bonus question: What salmonfly pattern name makes it sound like something you'd find lying on the couch? Bonus points

Joe's Flies? How do you fish Joe's Flies for a regualr fishing rod. Not a fly rod, I know how to do that, but I need to know how to fish the regular flies. Do I cast upstream or downstream or what? And do they work good? Thanks!

Tips for a Novice Fly Angler? I've tried fly fishing a couple times... now I bought a rod/flies/waders/etc. All dressed up and ready to go. I'm practicing my casts in my yard right now just to get the hang of it, but I just cannot wait to go out to the Bow River and give it a whirl. So for you experienced fly fishermen out there... what kind of advice can you give a novice like me? In particular, what are some signs on the river that give clues to where the trout are, what they're feeding on, and how to catch it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

A couple questions about fly fishing? I've seen what it's like, the motions involved, and it looks as though it could get tiring fairly quickly (for me at least. I have like no upperbody strength. haha). Are the rods on the lighter side. And if not, is it possible to get one like that? My boyfriend loves it and the way he talks about it made me curious, so he'll be taking me the next time I see him. I was also wondering about how often you catch fish.. how it compares to other methods? The last time I went fishing was years ago with my dad. We spent hours at a pond sort of place and I got one. It was "regular" fishing though... I have no idea what it would be called (I must seem like such an idiot to most of you :P). We cast out, let it sit for a little while and then slowly reeled back in. Anyway, I'm gonna stop rambling now. I'm just genuinely interested in fly fishing because my boyfriend enjoys it so much, and likes it even more that I'm curious. Thanks for any answers. :)

How much yould i get for all of this tackle? ok here it is: 1 telescopic roach pole 22 ft 2 carp rods brand new 3 pces 12ft 6 1 complete fly fishing set fly fishing set brand new. 1 debut 8 foot spinning rod. 1 assassin combi float rod 17 ft 1 2 peics rod 13ft 1 3 peice rod set 18 ft 1 redwolf roach pole 11 mtrs 1 2peice graphite ledger 10 ft 6 2 2 peicse power plus feeders 11 ft 6 1 2 peice abu garcia carp rod brand new 12 ft 1 johnwilson barble 5 peice rod 1 FTD 300 2 peice 3 mtr rod 2 specialists 14ft rods 1 carbonate RD9i8 10 foot rod 1 2 peice fly fishing rod 9 foot 1 redwolf boat rod 7 ft 1 roach pole 14 ft 2 interceptor rods 3 peice 12 ft 6 inches They are all my rods, please try to estimate a price as it is going to a young girls trust for the future. Heres my reels: 1 Sm 4000 clapxe reel 3 RD302 reels 1 Beach casting reel 2 Brutus bait runners f/drag 3 Tilstar reels 2 obsession leeda carp reels (brand new) 4 interceptor reels 2 fly reels 1 ARGO res system reel 2 abu garicia 1044 also: 1 Brutus bait runne front drag reel 1 Sea fishing reel

Experimenting with over/underling fly rods- your experience with this? I own a TFO 9 ft 4wt rod, and on a whim, I attached a reel with a 3wt DT line and did some lawn casting. It seems as though I was able to cast farther, although I had to work the rod a bit in closer to get it to load- no surprise there- My question is this- anyone ever tried to fish this way? It seems like if it works, it would be a boon, because I can get a more delicate presentation with the smaller line, but have the ability to reach farther than I otherwise would. It would also give me a little reserve power to buck the wind (always an issue out here in the West) So if anyone has done this, I'd appreciate hearing how it worked out for you, positive or negative. Many thanks.

Material for fly rods, graphite or bamboo? I fished both, but lately I have been using bamboo more. I love how it feels to cast. I just want to know what everyone thinks.

Steelhead fishing in Alaska question? I have caught steelhead in the rivers around me by happen chance, using lures for salmon. But I have never targeted steelhead. Some friends swear by using eggs and different spinners. What spin cast lures would you recommend? And what flies or streamers would you recommend for fly rod? Location; From Ketchikan to Juneau in South East Alaska also called the Panhandle or Inside Passage of Alaska. Link of that area; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Passage Thanks. The one I hooked into last fall and lost has me hooked lol! What a fighter

Help on the poem The Rain Guitar by James Dickey? Can you please help me better understand this poem? The water-grass under had never waved But one way. It showed me that the flow is forever Sealed from the rain in the weir. For some reason having To do with Winchester. I was sitting on my guitar case Watching nothing but the eelgrass trying to go downstream with all the right motions But one. I had on a sweater, and my threads were opening Like mouths with rain. It mattered to me not at all That a bridge was stumping With a man, or that he came near and cast a fish But my eyes on the grass they hid in, waving with the one move of trying To be somewhere else. With what I had, what could I do? I got out my guitar, that somebody told me was supposed to improve With moisture-or was it when it dried out?-and hit the lowest And loudest chord. The drops that were falling just then Hammered like Georgia railroad track With E. man went into a kind of fishing Turn. Play it, he said through his pipe. There I went, fast as I could with cold fingers. The strings shook With drops. A buck dance settled into the weir. Where was the city Cathedral in all this? Out of sight, but somewhere around. Play a little more Of that, he said, and cast. Music-wood shone, Getting worse or better faster than it liked: Improvement or disintegration Supposed to take years, fell on it By the gallon. It darkened and rang Like chimes. My sweater collapsed, and the rain reached My underwear. I picked, the guitar showered, and cast to the mountain Music. His wood leg tapped On the cobbles. Memories of many men Hung, rain-faced, improving, sealed off In the weir. I found myself playing Australian Versions of British marching songs. Mouths opened all over me; I sang, Like companions. I was Air Force, I said. So was; I picked This up in Burma, he said, tapping his gone g With his fly rod, as Burma and the South west Pacific and North Georgia reeled. Rapped, cast, chimed, darkened and drew down Cathedral water, and improved.

I'm doing a poetry project on "The Rain Guitar" by James Dickey.So tell me what you think about it.(its below)? I need to explicate it...or break it down. Help? The water-grass under had never waved But one way. It showed me that the flow is forever Sealed from the rain in the weir. For some reason having To do with Winchester. I was sitting on my guitar case Watching nothing but the eelgrass trying to go downstream with all the right motions But one. I had on a sweater, and my threads were opening Like mouths with rain. It mattered to me not at all That a bridge was stumping With a man, or that he came near and cast a fish But my eyes on the grass they hid in, waving with the one move of trying To be somewhere else. With what I had, what could I do? I got out my guitar, that somebody told me was supposed to improve With moisture-or was it when it dried out?-and hit the lowest And loudest chord. The drops that were falling just then Hammered like Georgia railroad track With E. man went into a kind of fishing Turn. Play it, he said through his pipe. There I went, fast as I could with cold fingers. The strings shook With drops. A buck dance settled into the weir. Where was the city Cathedral in all this? Out of sight, but somewhere around. Play a little more Of that, he said, and cast. Music-wood shone, Getting worse or better faster than it liked: Improvement or disintegration Supposed to take years, fell on it By the gallon. It darkened and rang Like chimes. My sweater collapsed, and the rain reached My underwear. I picked, the guitar showered, and cast to the mountain Music. His wood leg tapped On the cobbles. Memories of many men Hung, rain-faced, improving, sealed off In the weir. I found myself playing Australian Versions of British marching songs. Mouths opened all over me; I sang, Like companions. I was Air Force, I said. So was; I picked This up in Burma, he said, tapping his gone g With his fly rod, as Burma and the South west Pacific and North Georgia reeled. Rapped, cast, chimed, darkened and drew down Cathedral water, and improved.

Fishing line for a spinning reel? I asked last week about a new fishing rig for this spring. Ended up getting this from Bass Pro. 1. BPS Micro-lite Float n Fly- This is a STEAL at the clearance price! At $34.77, you won't find a better buy. The 8' size would work best as a shore rod; adding distance to your casts- http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores… 2. Pflueger Trion GX-7- Read the reviews! 76 people give this a 4.6 out of 5. Personally, I love the President Series but this may be over your budget- http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores… Now what line do I put on this rig? It's for a spinning reel and I won't be fishing around rocks, heavy brush etc... Mostly sandy bottoms and weed beds. I going with 6lb test as I only caught two fish last summer over 6lbs. Not everyone practices catch and release. What's the difference between Monofilament and Fluorocarbon? I need a line that works well on a spinning reel and has good knot strength. I'll most likely put 4lb test on the extra spool for Trout fishing. This will be in small rivers with rock sand bottoms. No boulders or heavy brush either. Can someone give me the brands of monofilament that they use on there spinning reels? I'm trying to find one that has low memory and doesn't backlash a lot. There is only about 50 different kinds and when I read the reviews one guy says it great and next says its junk.

Fiberglass rods??? should we just assign them to history? Ive just been given an old Browning "Silaflex" fly rod as a joke from one of my fishing buddies, thing is when I took it for a few casts I realized that i actually used to like fiberglass (probably shouldn't be admitting that) but i actually liked the feel of the fiberglass blank, so my question is, am i the only one who thinks maybe manufacturers should give glass another go? after all Hardy has so why don't more, I will be buying a new Hardy glass rod since ive realized ive missed glass, one key thing ive noticed with my "cheap" glass rod is the lightness, at 3.3oz for a 6/7wt its light compared to the cheap equivalent graphite rods of today. So, glass: Bring it back?

2 piece rod question.? well first off i had this nice little pole used it for catching cats, but 2 days ago some big fish came along and snapped my rod. (probably a nice sturgeon).... and i was thinking about replacing my rod with a 2 piece shakespeare i dont know any exact details but my question is. could a big fish or anything else take 1 piece of the rod and just go flying with it? because the rod i was looking at it comes off easy (not real easy but still easy) and could it come apart when you cast to hard, or have to much weight? also are shakespeares any good?

How do you fish for panfish with artificial lures? Yeah I know this one really sounds stupid but I've recently bought some artificial lures to go crappie/blue gill fishing with. I mainly just have some grubs with jig heads and some little flies. Whats the best way to fish em? How do you retrieve? Should I just tie the grub and jig head on or should I put on some BB weights? Do you use a bobber? How far can I expect to cast these on an ultra light rod with a spinning reel full of 4lb. line? I've always fished for panfish with crickets but want to try something new.

HELP through the BS and PR of Fly Fishing? So many kinds of pole, rods, system..... how dose anyone know what is best for their style of FLY FISHING?? Moreover dose it matter than the fly and presentation? I thought fishing for wild trout was hard enough!! Trying to learn and understand what is truth verves…… Marketing, PR, and BS is far to hard for me!! Is anything true or really make any differences? What Fly rod and line i.e. balanced system is good for small trout on small rivers? Fly Fishing: Fly fishing rods are thin, long, flexible rods sometimes made of bamboo, but mostly from man-made materials. As their name indicates, fly rods are designed to cast a fly (or flea as our mentor used to say). Instead of a weighted fishing lure, a fly rod uses the weight of the fly line for casting, and lightweight rods can cast the very smallest fly (or flea). Fly rods tend to have a single, large diameter line guide, with a number of smaller looped guides placed along the fishing rod to help control the movement of the thick fly line.

Why are there so many scientific and historical innacuracies in the word of your God? Science and History in the Bible All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.--Lev.11:20 Arguments cannot be answered by personal abuse.... Should it turn out that I am the worst man in the whole world, the story of the flood will remain just as improbable as before, and the contradictions of the Pentateuch will still demand an explanation. -- Robert Ingersoll, Some Mistakes of Moses Genesis The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The true order of events was just the opposite. 1:1-2:3 God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 1:3-5 God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8 Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all. 1:11 In an apparent endorsement of astrology, God places the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac in an effort to predict what will happen on Earth. 1:14 God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? 1:16 "He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars. 1:16 "And God set them [the stars] in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." 1:17 In verse 11, God "let the earth bring forth" the plants. Now he has the earth "bring forth" the animals as well. So maybe the creationists have it all wrong. Maybe God created livings things through the process of evolution. 1:24 God gave humans dominion over every other living thing on earth. 1:26 God commands us to "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over ... every living thing that moveth upon the earth." 1:28 "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat." 1:29 All animals were originally herbivores. Tapeworms, vampire bats, mosquitoes, and barracudas -- all were strict vegetarians, as they were created by God. 1:30 "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31 In Genesis 1 the entire creation takes 6 days, but the universe is at least 12 billion years old, with new stars constantly being formed. 1:31 Humans were not created instantaneously from dust and breath, but evolved over millions of years from simpler life forms. 2:7 After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-22 God fashions a woman out of one of Adam's ribs. Because of this story, it was commonly believed (and sometimes it is still said today) that males have one less rib than females. When Vesalius showed in 1543 that the number of ribs was the same in males and females, it created a storm of controversy. 2:19 God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before -- by hopping on his tail, perhaps? But snakes don't eat dust, do they? 3:14 Because Adam listened to Eve, God cursed the ground and causes thorns and thistles to grow. Before this, according to the (false) Genesis story, plants had no natural defenses. The rose had no thorn, cacti were spineless, holly leaves were smooth, and the nettle had no sting. Foxgloves, oleander, and milkweeds were all perfectly safe to eat. 3:17-18 "There were giants in the earth in those days." Well, I suppose it's good to know that. But why is there no archaeological evidence for the existence of these giants? 6:4 Noah is told to make an ark that is 450 feet long. 6:14-15 Whether by twos or by sevens, Noah takes male and female representatives from each species of "every thing that creepeth upon the earth." 7:8 God opens the "windows of heaven." He does this every time it rains. 7:11 All of the animals boarded the ark "in the selfsame day." 7:13-14 The flood covered the highest mountain tops (Mount Everest?) with fifteen cubits to spare. 7:20 "The windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained." This happens whenever it stops raining. 8:2 Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11 When the animals left the ark, what would they have eaten? There would have been no plants after the ground had been submerged for nearly a year. What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone extinct. And how did the New World primates or the Australian marsupials find their way back after the flood subsided? 8:19 Noah kills the "clean beasts" and burns their dead bodies for God. According to 7:8 this would have caused the extinction of all "clean" animals since only two of each were taken onto the ark. 8:20-21 "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth." Although this would have been good advice for the mythical Noah, it is deadly advice for humankind as a whole. Overpopulation is one of our greatest problems, yet there is nothing in the bible to address it. 9:1 According to this verse, all animals fear humans. Although it is true that many do, it is also true that some do not. Sharks and grizzly bears, for example, are generally much less afraid of us than we are of them. 9:2 "Into your hand are they (the animals) delivered." God gave the animals to humans, and they can do whatever they please with them. This verse has been used by bible believers to justify all kinds of cruelty to animals and environmental destruction. 9:2 God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He even puts the rainbow in the sky to remind himself of his promise to the animals not to do it again. But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13 Some creationists believe that this verse refers to continental drift, which, they say, began to occur during the days of Pelag (which means "division"), about 100 or so years after the flood. But many other creationists disagree. 10:25 "The whole earth was of one language." But this could not be true, since by this time (around 2400 BCE) there were already many languages, each unintelligible to the others. 11:1, 6 God worries that people could build a tower high enough to reach him (them?) in heaven, and that by so doing they will become omnipotent. 11:4-6 According to the Tower of Babel story, the many human languages were created instantaneously by God. But actually the various languages evolved gradually over long periods of time. 11:9 The ridiculously long lives of the patriarchs. 11:10-32 "And they returned to the land of the Philistines." But the Philistines didn't arrive in the region of Canaan until around 1200 BCE -- 800 years after Abraham's supposed migration from Ur. 21:32, 26:1, 8, 15, 18 Laban learns "by experience" that God has blessed him for Jacob's sake. "By experience" means "by divination", at least that is how most other versions translate this verse. 30:27 Jacob displays his (and God's) knowledge of biology by having goats copulate while looking at streaked rods. The result is streaked baby goats. 30:37-39 God (or an angel) praises Jacob for his fancy genetic work in Gen.30:37-39. 31:11-12 Joseph and his magic divining cup. 44:5, 44:15 Exodus It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 16:35 The Israelite population went from 70 (or 75) to several million in a few hundred years. 1:5,7, 12:37, 38:26 Why are some people born with disabilities? Because God deliberately makes them that way. 4:11 God led the Israelites through the land of the Philistines, hundreds of years before the Philistines were established in Canaan. 13:17 "The manna referred to in the Bible, in Exodus 16:14, seems to have been the dried excrement of Trabutina mannipara, a scale insect that feeds on tamarisk trees." Benjamin B. Normark, The Sex Lives of Scales, Natural History, Sept. 2004. 16:14-15 "In six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them." Believers often say that the "days" of creation should be taken allegorically, but this verse is quite clear. God created the universe in six 24 hour days. 20:11 Leviticus The bible says that hares and coneys are unclean because they "chew the cud" but do not part the hoof. But hares and coneys are not ruminants and they do not "chew the cud." 11:5-6 Bats are birds to the biblical God. 11:13, 19 Be sure to watch out for those "other flying creeping things which have four feet." (I wish God wouldn't get so technical!) I guess he must mean four-legged insects. You'd think that since God made the insects, and so many of them (at least several million species), that he would know how many legs they have! 11:23 God's law for lepers: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. 14:2-52 Numbers The Israelite population went from seventy (Ex.1:5) to several million (over 600,000 adult males) in just a few generations! 1:45-46 God sends quails to feed his people until they were "two cubits [about a meter] high upon the face of the earth." Taking the "face of the earth" to be a circle with a radius of say 30 kilometers (an approximate day's journey), this would amount to 3 trillion (3x1012) liters of quails. At 2 quails per liter, this would provide a couple million quails for each of several million people. 11:31 God strikes Miriam with leprosy. (In the Bible, leprosy is caused by the wrath of God or the malice of Satan.) 12:10 "And there we saw the giants ... And we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." This statement may have been figurative, hyperbole, typical biblical exaggeration, or an actual description of the sons of Anak, in which case they must have been about 100 meters tall. These are the same giants (the Nephilium) that resulted when the "sons of God" mated with "the daughters of men in Gen.6:4. Of course these superhuman god-men should have been destroyed in the flood. So what are they doing still alive? 13:33 It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 14:33, 32:13 God's cure for snakebite: a brass serpent on a pole. 21:8 God has "the strength of a unicorn." Oh heck, I bet he's even stronger than a unicorn. 23:22, 24:8 Deuteronomy It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 2:7, 8:2, 29:5 "A land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time." (They must have been much more common back then.) 2:10-11, 20-21 Og, the king of the giants, was a tall man, even by NBA standards. His bed measured 9 by 4 cubits (13.5 feet long and 6 feet wide). 3:11 God promises to cast out seven nations including the Amorites, Canaanites, and the Jebusites. But he was unable to fulfill his promise. These nations were "greater and mightier" than the Israelites, who according to Ex.12:37 and Num.1:45-46 already had numbered several million. So the region, according to the bible, must have had a population of more than twenty million! 7:1 This verse mistakenly says that the hare chews its cud. 14:7-8 To the biblical God, a bat is just an another unclean bird. 14:11, 18 "Their wine is the poison of dragons." I wonder what genus and species the bible is referring to when it mentions dragons. 32:33 Joseph's "horns are like the horns of a unicorn." 33:17 Joshua It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 5:6 In Joshua 8 the Israelites destroy Ai and make it a desolate heap. But Ai was an abandoned city by the time of the Israelites and this story is a myth invented to explain the ruins of an ancient city that the Israelites encountered. See Archaeology and Biblical Accuracy by Farrell Till. 8:1-29 This verse says that Ai was never again occupied after it was destroyed by Joshua. But Nehemiah (7:32) lists it among the cities of Israel at the time of the Babylonian captivity. 8:28 In a divine type of daylight savings time, God makes the sun stand still so that Joshua can get all his killing done before dark. 10:12-13 "And the coast of Og king of Bashan, which as of the remnant of the giants...." 12:4, 18:6 Judges "The stars in their courses fought against Sisera." Unless astrology is true, how can the stars affect the outcome of a battle? 5:20 "As the sun ... goeth forth in his might." The sun, according to the bible, goes around the earth. 5:31 1 Samuel "The pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them. 2:8 Goliath was ten feet tall ("six cubits and a span"). 17:4 2 Samuel In what is surely a biblical exaggeration, we are told that "the servants of David" killed 20,000 soldiers in one day. And that "the wood [forest] devoured more people that day than the sword devoured." It must have been spooky forest to have devoured more than 20,000 soldiers. There were probably lots of lions and tigers and bears. (Oh my!)18:7-8 The earth shakes, the foundations of heaven move, smoke comes out of God's nostrils, and fire out of his mouth. 22:8-16 How many soldiers did Israel have? This verse says that Judah and Israel had a total of 1,300,000 fighting men (1 Chr.21:5 says 1,570,000) in this battle. Of course, this is a ridiculously high number for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE. (The United States had about 1.37 million active duty soldiers in 2001.) 24:9 1 Kings This verse implies that the value of p is 3. (The actual value is approximately 3.14159.) 7:23 God creates droughts by causing "heaven to shut up" as a punishment for sin. 8:35 Ever the playful spirit, God withers, and then restores, the hand of king Jeroboam. 13:4 2 Kings Elisha cures a leper, but only after the leper dips himself seven times in the Jordan. 5:14 Elisha not only can cure leprosy, he can also dish it out. Here he makes his servant (Gehazi) and all his descendants lepers forever. 5:27 A dead body is brought to life when it accidentally touches the bones of Elisha. 13:21 Isaiah, with a little help from God, makes the sun move backwards ten degrees. Now that's quite a trick. All at once, the earth stopped spinning and then reversed its direction of rotation. Or maybe the sun traveled around the earth in those days! 20:11 1 Chronicles Some creationists believe that this verse (and Gen.10:25) refers to continental drift, which, they say, began to occur during the days of Pelag (which means "division"), about 100 or so years after the flood. 1:19 "The earth ... shall be stable, that it be not moved." It doesn't spin on its axis or travel about the sun. 16:30 According to this verse David's army had 1,100,000 men from Israel and 470,000 men from Judah, Of course, this numbers is ridiculously high for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE. (The United States had about 1.37 million active duty soldiers in 2001.) 21:5 David provides Solomon with a fantastically large amount of gold and silver with which to build the temple: 100,000 talents of gold and 1,000,000 talents of silver. Since a talent was about 60 pounds, this would be about 3,000 tons of gold and 30,000 tons of silver. 22:14 King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. This is especially interesting since darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived some five hundred years after David. 29:7 As usual, the reported amounts of gold, silver, and iron are grossly exaggerated. (100,000 talents of iron, for example, would be about 34 million kilograms.) 29:7 2 Chronicles Since the molten sea was round with a diameter of ten cubits and a circumference of thirty cubits, we know that the biblical value of p is 3. (The actual value is approximately 3.14159.) 4:2 Abijah spoke to 1,200,000 soldiers at one time. (He had a really loud voice.) 13:3-4 500,000 soldiers die in a single God-assisted slaughter. 13:16-17 In the largest single God-assisted massacre in the bible, Asa, with God's help, kills one million Ethiopians. 14:8-14 Asa, when he had a foot disease, went to physicians instead of seeking the Lord. (God disapproves of those who seek medical help rather than "seeking the Lord.") 16:12 God makes Uzziah a leper for burning incense without a license. 26:19-21 Esther "Haman thought in his heart." Most people think with their heads, but biblical folks think with their hearts. 6:6 Job The earth rests upon pillars and doesn't move (unless God gets angry or something). 9:6 "Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not." The earth is fixed and the sun travels about it. 9:7 Heaven is set upon pillars that tremble when God gets mad. 26:11 The earth is set on foundations and it does not move. 38:4-6 God has snow and hail all stored up to use later "in time of trouble." 38:22 God spread out the sky, which is a solid structure, hard and strong like a mirror. 37:18 Ostriches are not cruel and stupid birds who abandon their eggs to die after laying them, as these verses imply. They are, in fact, careful and attentive parents. The male scoops out a hollow for the eggs, which are incubated by the female during the day and the male at night. After the eggs are hatched, they are cared for by the mother for over a month, at which time the chicks can keep up with running adults. 39:13-16 The bible is wrong about ostriches being cruel and inattentive parents (39:13-16). But if they were, whose fault would it be? Why would God deprive them of the tools that are needed to do the job right? 39:17 Bible believers have identified the behemoth as a hippopotamus, dinosaur, wildebeest, or crocodile. But my favorite is the way these verses are translated by Stephen Mitchell: "Look now: the Beast that I made: he eats grass like a bull. Look: the power in his thighs, the pulsing sinews of his belly. His penis stiffens like a pine; his testicles bulge with vigor." 40:15-16 "Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord?" 41:1-34 Psalms The earth shakes whenever God really gets mad. 18:7 "The foundations of the world were discovered ... at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils." (The earth is set on firm foundations and does not move -- unless God blows his nose.) 18:15 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." 19:1 The sun moves around the earth. 19:4-6 From his seat in heaven, God can see the whole earth and all its inhabitants. (He sits directly above the earth, which is a flat disc below him.) 33:14-15 Diseases are sent by God to punish sin. 38:3 According to the psalmist, snails melt. But they don't, of course, they simply leave a slimy trail as they move along. 58:8 God is so strong that he can break the head of dragons and of leviathan. 74:13-14 God holds the earth up with pillars. 75:3 Another reference to "the foundations of the earth", implying that the earth is fixed and does not move. 82:5 "Thou hast broken Rahab [the sea monster] in pieces." 89:10 "The world also is established, that it cannot be moved." 93:1 "The world also shall be established that it shall not be moved." 96:10 "The Lord ... who healeth all thy diseases." God heals all diseases. Medical science is unnecessary. 103:2-3 "God ... who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain" (The earth is stationary and does not orbit the sun.) 104:5 "In wisdom hast thou made them all." 104:24 God is offended by those who make things with their hands or invent things with their minds. 106:39 "The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works." Then why do nearly all animals die painful deaths from starvation, predation, or disease long before they reach adulthood? 145:9 God "satisfiest the desire of every living thing." But in nature few needs are met and few desires are satisfied. Life is short, hard, cruel, and painful for nearly every living thing. 145:17 "He calleth them all by their names." God knows how many stars there are and knows them all by name. That's pretty impressive since there are 100 billion or so gallaxies, each containing about 100 billion stars. 147:7 "Praise him in the firmament of his power." 150:1 Ecclesiastes "The sun also ariseth" Although this verse is interpreted figuratively today, it was taken literally by virtually all Christians until the Copernican revolution, and was used by the Church to condemn Galileo for teaching the heliocentric heresy. 1:5 "He hath made every thing beautiful." Everything is beautiful in its own way. Parasitic worms, cancer cells, bubonic plague. You just have to look at it from God's eyes. 3:11 "No man can find out the work that God maketh." Science is impossible. We can learn nothing at all about the natural world. 3:11 Isaiah "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb...." I wonder what will become of the spiders. Will they be more friendly toward flies? And will the parasitic wasps find another way to feed their larvae? Or will they continue to feed off the living bodies of caterpillars? 11:6, 65:25 "And the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den." A cockatrice is a serpent, hatched from a cock's egg, that can kill with a glance. They are rare nowadays. 11:8 God will gather up the people of Judea "from the four corners of the earth." In the Bible's view, the earth is flat with four corners. 11:12 According to the Bible, the moon produces its own light and the earth does not move. 13:10 When God gets really angry, he causes earthquakes. 13:13 Dragons will live in Babylonian palaces and satyrs will dance there. 13:21-22 Out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent." What ever happened to these fascinating biblical creatures? 14:29 God will turn the earth upside down, knock it off of its foundations, and then shake and bake it until it "reels to and fro like a drunkard." 24:1, 18-20 God will punish the leviathan ("that crooked serpent") with his own sword and will kill the sea dragon. 27:1 Natural disasters (earthquakes, storms, fires, tsunamis) are caused by, and are a sign of, God's wrath. 29:7 Among the many strange creatures mentioned in the Bible that no longer seem to exist is the "fiery flying serpent." 30:6 "The light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold." Well, this is one prophecy that will never come true. Since the moon has no light of its own, but only reflects that of the sun, it could never shine like the sun. And the sun will not, at least not while there are humans to see it, shine 7 times as bright as it does now. 30:26 "And the unicorns shall come down with them." 34:7 Dragons and satyrs may not seem real to you, but they did to the author of these verses. 34:13-14 God makes the sun move backwards 10 degrees. Now that's a neat trick! 38:8 The earth is a flat disc that God looks down upon from his throne in heaven. 40:22 Even the dragons honor God. 43:20 God cut Rahab (the sea monster) to pieces, wounded the dragon, and dried up the sea. 51:9-10 Bad people hatch poisonous cockatrice eggs. Whoever eats the eggs will die, and when the eggs are crushed a viper hatches out of them. 59:5 "Neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee." Of course the moon doesn't give off light, but only reflects the light from the sun. 60:19 Jeremiah Droughts are punishments from God. 3:3 "I will send serpents, cockatrices among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you." A cockatrice is a serpent, hatched from a cock's egg, that can kill with a glance. They are rare nowadays. 8:17 When God gets angry, the earth trembles. (That's what causes earthquakes.) 10:10 The wild asses "snuffed up the wind like dragons." 14:6 The earth is set on foundations and does not move. 31:37 Lamentations Ostriches are not cruel and inattentive parents, as this verse implies. They are, in fact, careful and attentive parents. The male scoops out a hollow for the eggs, which are incubated by the female during the day and the male at night. After the eggs are hatched, they are cared for by the mother for over a month, at which time the chicks can keep up with running adults. 4:3 Ezekiel "The firmament ... the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above." 1:22 The world is flat and has four corners. 7:2 The firmament is over the heads of the cherubim. 10:1 God "will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light." To Ezekiel, the sun is just a little light that can be covered with a cloud, and the moon produces its own light. 32:7 Daniel The third year of the reign of Jehoiakim would be 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem for the first time (without actually destroying it). By that time Jehohiakim was dead and his son, Jehoiachin, was ruling. 1:1 The stone became "a great mountain" that "filled the whole earth." This could only be possible on a flat, disc-shaped earth. 2:35 Daniel's tree is tall enough to be seen from "the end of all the earth." Only on a flat earth would this be possible. 4:10-11, 20 Apparently, the author of Daniel knew of only two Babylonian kings during the period of the exile: Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar, who he wrongly thought was the son of Nebuchadnezzar. But Nebuchadnezzar died in 562 BCE and was succeeded by his son, Awil-Marduk (referred to in the bible as "Evilmerodach" [see 2 Kg.25:27 and Jer.52:31]). In 560 BCE, Amel-Marduk was assassinated by his brother-in-law, Nergal-shar-usur. The next and last king of Babylon was Nabonidus who reigned from 556 to 539, when Babylon was conquered by Cyrus. It was Nabonidus, and not Belshazzar, who was the last of the Babylonian kings. Belshazzar was a the son and viceroy of Nabonidus. But he was not a king, and was not the son (or any other relation) of Nebuchadnezzar. 5:2,11,18,22 Darius the Median is a fictitious character whom the author perhaps confused with Darius I of Persia, who came to the throne in 521 BCE, 17 years after the fall of Babylon. The author of Daniel incorrectly makes him the successor of Belshazzar instead of Cyrus. 5:31 To Daniel, the stars are small objects that can fall from the sky and then be "stamped upon." 8:10 "They ... shall shine as the brightness of the firmament." 12:3 Joel "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood." These "signs" were a lot more impressive before the causes of solar and lunar eclipses were understood. 2:31 Amos God destroyed the Amorites who were a race of giants as tall as cedars and as strong as oaks. 2:9 It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 2:10 Jonah God makes "a great fish" to swallow Jonah. And Jonah stayed in the fish's belly for three days and three nights. 1:17 "Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey." That would make it about 60 miles in diameter -- larger than Los Angeles! 3:3 Micah The earth is set upon strong foundations and therefore does not move. 6:2 Nahum Tornadoes, earthquakes, and fires are caused by God and are signs of his anger. 1:5 Habakkuk "The sun and moon stood still in their habitation." This verse apparently refers to Joshua 10:12-13, where God makes the sun stand still. 3:11 Matthew When was Jesus born? 2:1 "The star ... went before them." If the star "went before them," leading them to Bethlehem, then it couldn't have been a star or any other astronomical object or event. But Matthew couldn't have known that. Everyone at the time thought that stars were just little points of light a short distance above the earth. It'd be no problem to have one hover above a particular place for a while. 2:9 Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event. 2:16 The devil kidnaps Jesus and takes him up to the top of the temple, and then to the top of "an exceedingly high mountain," high enough to see "all the kingdoms of the world." I guess the earth was flat in those days. 4:8 "Behold the fowls of the air...." Jesus says that God feeds them. But, if so, he does one hell of a lousy job at it. Most birds die before leaving the nest, and the few who manage to fly soon die painful deaths of starvation, predation, or disease. If God is caring for them, pray that he stays away from you. 6:26 Speaking of the birds, Jesus asks: "Are ye not much better than they?" This is meant as a rhetorical question, but the answer is far from obvious to me. I guess to Jesus, though, birds are not worth much compared to humans. So you can do whatever the hell you want with (and to) them. 6:26 According to Matthew, people who cannot speak are possessed by the devil. 9:32-33 Jesus gives his disciples "power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness." 10:1 Jesus tells his disciples to perform all the usual tricks: "heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, and cast out devils." 10:8 God is involved in the death of every sparrow. He sees to it that they each die painful deaths of starvation, predation, or disease. But don't worry. God will do the same for you. (He thinks that humans are worth much more than sparrows.) 10:29. 31 Jesus casts out a devil from a man who was blind and dumb. (Thos we are unable to see or hear are possessed by devils.) 12:22 Some Christians believe that the natural evil in the world (predators, parasites, pain, death) is due to Satan, not God. 13:28 Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. And since there are no trees in the mustard family, mustard seeds do not grow into "the greatest of all trees." 13:31-32 Jesus cures an epileptic "lunatic" by "rebuking the devil." (Epilepsy is caused by devils.) 17:15-18 "The moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven." Apparently, Jesus believed that the moon produces its own light, and that the stars are lights held in place by a firmament only a few miles above our heads. 24:29 Jesus believed that Noah's flood actually happened. 24:37 When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels. 27:45, 51-53 Mark Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. (The smallest seeds are found among the tropical, epiphytic orchids.) 4:31 "Thy faith hath made thee whole." If you have enough faith, you will never get sick. (Illness is caused by sin and lack of faith. Medical science is unnecessary.) 5:34 Jesus heals a boy with "a dumb spirit" by saying, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him and enter no more into him." (Sounds like a script from Monty Python, doesn't it?) But how could a deaf spirit hear the words spoken to it? And how could a dumb spirit cry out? 9:17, 25-26 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." Jesus believed that sex and Adam and Eve were created "from the beginning." But the universe is about 13.6 billion years old, the earth 4.6 billion, sex a billion years or so, and humans (depending on how you define "human") for a couple million years. 10:6 "In those days ... the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall." Of course this is nonsense. The billions of stars will never fall to earth and the moon does not produce its own light. 13:24-25 When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over the whole land." It is strange that there is no record of this extraordinary event outside of the gospels. 15:33 Luke When was Jesus born? 2:1 The devil takes Jesus to the top of a mountain and shows him "all the kingdoms of the world." I guess the world was flat in those days. 4:5 Epilepsy is caused by devils. 9:39 People who cannot speak are possessed with devils. 11:14 Illnesses are caused by Satan. 13:11-16 Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. 17:26-27 Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history. 17:29-32 "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars." 21:25 When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the earth." It is strange that there is no record of this extraordinary event outside of the gospels. 23:44-45 John "These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing." But no such site is known in history. Some translations (ASV, NAB, NIV, RSV, NRSV) rename Bethabara as Bethany, but Bethany is a suburb of Jerusalem and, therefore, not "beyond the Jordan." 1:28 "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" Good question, Jesus! He was wrong about creation in Mk.10:6, wrong about the flood in Lk.17:26-27, and wrong about the smallest seed in Mt.13:31-32. So why would anyone believe him when he talks about heaven in Jn.3:16? 3:12 Whoever enters a pool after it is stirred up by angels will be cured of "whatsoever disease he had." 5:4 Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14 The disciples ask Jesus about the cause of a man's blindness. Was it because he or his parents sinned? Jesus said neither had sinned. The man was born blind so that Jesus could show off his powers by curing him of his blindness. 9:1-3 A blind man's sight is restored by washing in the pool of Siloam. 9:7 Acts "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?" This verse was used by a Dominican friar to discourage the use of Galileo's telescope. (Notice the pun on Galileo's name in "men of Galilee".) 1:11 The prophets have spoken "since the world began," which means that humans have been around since the creation of the world. But humans are recent arrivals on an ancient earth. There were no prophets when the earth formed 4.6 billion years ago. 3:21 The sick were healed just by touching the shadow of Peter. 5:15-16 It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 7:36, 13:18 Sick people are oppressed by the devil. 10:38 Sick people were cured by touching the handkerchief or apron of Paul. And the evil spirits when out of them." 19:12 Paul is bitten by a poisonous snake and yet lives. The "barbarians" who were shipwrecked with him thought he must be a murderer since he was bitten; but then they changed their minds and thought him to be a god since he didn't die. (The snake story is especially interesting since there are no poisonous snakes on Malta, and there is no evidence of their existence in the past.) 28:3-8 Romans The existence and nature of God are self-evident. 1:20 The Religious Right often uses Romans 1:21-25 to condemn environmentalists. 1:21-25 Paul claims that before Adam sinned death did not exist. But, of course, death didn't enter the world a few thousand years ago because of Adam's sin. Death has been a part of life since life first arose (on this planet, at least) a few billion years ago. 5:12 Paul says that everyone, even in his day, had the gospel preached to them. Even the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders? 10:18 1 Corinthians Paul shows his ignorance (and God's) of biology by saying that only dead seeds will germinate. Actually, a seed must be alive to germinate. 15:36 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another of beasts." This verse is used by Creationists to argue against both evolution and any attempt to create "human-animal hybrids" or "chimeras." 15:39 "The first man Adam" Young Earth Creationists use this verse to support a literal reading of Genesis. "If we cannot believe in the First Adam, why believe in the Last [Christ]?" 15:45 "And afterward that which is spiritual." Asa Gray, the foremost American botanist in the 19th century and close friend of Charles Darwin, used this verse to support the idea that the Bible is not inconsistent with human evolution. 15:46 2 Corinthians "As the serpent beguiled Eve" Young Earth Creationists use this verse to show that Paul believed the creation story in Gen.3:1-6. 11:3 Ephesians Satan is the "prince of the power of the air." Until modern times Christians believed that Satan was responsible for storms and droughts. 2:2 Colossians "For by him were all things created.... All things were created by him, and for him.... And by him all things consist." Including guinea worms? 1:16-17 1 Timothy "For Adam was first formed, then Eve." Young Earth Creationists use this verse to show that Paul believed the creation story in Gen.2:18-22. 2:13 Avoid science, especially that which disagrees with Paul ("science falsely so called"). Other versions translate this phrase as "false knowledge", which may be more correct. However many fundamentalist Christians still use this verse ("science falsely so called") to justify their rejection of any idea, scientific or otherwise, they believe contradicts the bible. 6:20 Hebrews God set the earth on a foundation; therefore, it does not move. 1:10 James James says that, even in his day, all beasts, birds, serpents, and sea creatures had been tamed by humans. 3:7 If you are sick, rely on the power of prayer. It works every time. 5:14-15 By praying, Elias was able to keep it from raining for three and a half years. 5:17 2 Peter Those who disbelieve in the Bible's creation and flood stories are "willingly ignorant." 3:5 "God ... spared not the old world, but saved Noah." Young Earth Creationists use this verse to show that the New Testament authors believed in the flood story. (So you should too.) 2:4-5 Revelation "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him." This could only happen on a flat earth. 1:7 Jesus holds seven stars in his hand. Of course, it is possible that this is metaphorical. Perhaps. But it is clear from other verses (6:13, 8:10, 12:4) that John thought of stars as being small, perhaps even small enough for Jesus to hold in his hand. 1:16 "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11 The sixth seal is opened and there is a great earthquake, the sun becomes black, and the moon red, the stars fall from heaven, and mountains and islands move around. 6:12-14 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth...." To John, the stars are just little lights a few miles away that can easily fall to the earth. 6:13 John "saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth." Well, I guess that settles it: the earth is flat and square-shaped, or at least quadrilateral in shape. 7:1 An angel threw the censer down to earth, causing thunder, lightning, and earthquakes. 8:5 "And there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters." In the bible, stars are just little lights that can fall to the ground from the sky. 8:10 The fourth trumpet smites one third of the sun, moon, and stars. 8:12 "I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth." 9:1 God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6 The dragon's tail smacks down to earth one third of the stars. To the author of Revelation, the stars are just little lights that can fall to the ground from the sky. 12:4

Poll: Did you like The Oddysey or The Iliad better? I liked the Iliad better. This was my favorite part: Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus, that brought countless ills upon the Achaeans. Many a brave soul did it send hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs and vultures, for so were the counsels of Jove fulfilled from the day on which the son of Atreus, king of men, and great Achilles, first fell out with one another. And which of the gods was it that set them on to quarrel? It was the son of Jove and Leto; for he was angry with the king and sent a pestilence upon the host to plague the people, because the son of Atreus had dishonoured Chryses his priest. Now Chryses had come to the ships of the Achaeans to free his daughter, and had brought with him a great ransom: moreover he bore in his hand the sceptre of Apollo wreathed with a suppliant's wreath and he besought the Achaeans, but most of all the two sons of Atreus, who were their chiefs. "Sons of Atreus," he cried, "and all other Achaeans, may the gods who dwell in Olympus grant you to sack the city of Priam, and to reach your homes in safety; but free my daughter, and accept a ransom for her, in reverence to Apollo, son of Jove." On this the rest of the Achaeans with one voice were for respecting the priest and taking the ransom that he offered; but not so Agamemnon, who spoke fiercely to him and sent him roughly away. "Old man," said he, "let me not find you tarrying about our ships, nor yet coming hereafter. Your sceptre of the god and your wreath shall profit you nothing. I will not free her. She shall grow old in my house at Argos far from her own home, busying herself with her loom and visiting my couch; so go, and do not provoke me or it shall be the worse for you." The old man feared him and obeyed. Not a word he spoke, but went by the shore of the sounding sea and prayed apart to King Apollo whom lovely Leto had borne. "Hear me," he cried, "O god of the silver bow, that protectest Chryse and holy Cilla and rulest Tenedos with thy might, hear me oh thou of Sminthe. If I have ever decked your temple with garlands, or burned your thigh-bones in fat of bulls or goats, grant my prayer, and let your arrows avenge these my tears upon the Danaans." Thus did he pray, and Apollo heard his prayer. He came down furious from the summits of Olympus, with his bow and his quiver upon his shoulder, and the arrows rattled on his back with the rage that trembled within him. He sat himself down away from the ships with a face as dark as night, and his silver bow rang death as he shot his arrow in the midst of them. First he smote their mules and their hounds, but presently he aimed his shafts at the people themselves, and all day long the pyres of the dead were burning. For nine whole days he shot his arrows among the people, but upon the tenth day Achilles called them in assembly- moved thereto by Juno, who saw the Achaeans in their death-throes and had compassion upon them. Then, when they were got together, he rose and spoke among them. "Son of Atreus," said he, "I deem that we should now turn roving home if we would escape destruction, for we are being cut down by war and pestilence at once. Let us ask some priest or prophet, or some reader of dreams (for dreams, too, are of Jove) who can tell us why Phoebus Apollo is so angry, and say whether it is for some vow that we have broken, or hecatomb that we have not offered, and whether he will accept the savour of lambs and goats without blemish, so as to take away the plague from us." With these words he sat down, and Calchas son of Thestor, wisest of augurs, who knew things past present and to come, rose to speak. He it was who had guided the Achaeans with their fleet to Ilius, through the prophesyings with which Phoebus Apollo had inspired him. With all sincerity and goodwill he addressed them thus:- "Achilles, loved of heaven, you bid me tell you about the anger of King Apollo, I will therefore do so; but consider first and swear that you will stand by me heartily in word and deed, for I know that I shall offend one who rules the Argives with might, to whom all the Achaeans are in subjection. A plain man cannot stand against the anger of a king, who if he swallow his displeasure now, will yet nurse revenge till he has wreaked it. Consider, therefore, whether or no you will protect me." And Achilles answered, "Fear not, but speak as it is borne in upon you from heaven, for by Apollo, Calchas, to whom you pray, and whose oracles you reveal to us, not a Danaan at our ships shall lay his hand upon you, while I yet live to look upon the face of the earth- no, not though you name Agamemnon himself, who is by far the foremost of the Achaeans." Thereon the seer spoke boldly. "The god," he said, "is angry neither about vow nor hecatomb, but for his priest's sake, whom Agamemnon has dishonoured, in that he would not free his daughter nor take a ransom for her; therefore has he sent these evils upon us, and will yet send others. He will not deliver the Danaans from this pestilence till Agamemnon has restored the girl without fee or ransom to her father, and has sent a holy hecatomb to Chryse. Thus we may perhaps appease him." With these words he sat down, and Agamemnon rose in anger. His heart was black with rage, and his eyes flashed fire as he scowled on Calchas and said, "Seer of evil, you never yet prophesied smooth things concerning me, but have ever loved to foretell that which was evil. You have brought me neither comfort nor performance; and now you come seeing among Danaans, and saying that Apollo has plagued us because I would not take a ransom for this girl, the daughter of Chryses. I have set my heart on keeping her in my own house, for I love her better even than my own wife Clytemnestra, whose peer she is alike in form and feature, in understanding and accomplishments. Still I will give her up if I must, for I would have the people live, not die; but you must find me a prize instead, or I alone among the Argives shall be without one. This is not well; for you behold, all of you, that my prize is to go elsewhither." And Achilles answered, "Most noble son of Atreus, covetous beyond all mankind, how shall the Achaeans find you another prize? We have no common store from which to take one. Those we took from the cities have been awarded; we cannot disallow the awards that have been made already. Give this girl, therefore, to the god, and if ever Jove grants us to sack the city of Troy we will requite you three and fourfold." Then Agamemnon said, "Achilles, valiant though you be, you shall not thus outwit me. You shall not overreach and you shall not persuade me. Are you to keep your own prize, while I sit tamely under my loss and give up the girl at your bidding? Let the Achaeans find me a prize in fair exchange to my liking, or I will come and take your own, or that of Ajax or of Ulysses; and he to whomsoever I may come shall rue my coming. But of this we will take thought hereafter; for the present, let us draw a ship into the sea, and find a crew for her expressly; let us put a hecatomb on board, and let us send Chryseis also; further, let some chief man among us be in command, either Ajax, or Idomeneus, or yourself, son of Peleus, mighty warrior that you are, that we may offer sacrifice and appease the the anger of the god." Achilles scowled at him and answered, "You are steeped in insolence and lust of gain. With what heart can any of the Achaeans do your bidding, either on foray or in open fighting? I came not warring here for any ill the Trojans had done me. I have no quarrel with them. They have not raided my cattle nor my horses, nor cut down my harvests on the rich plains of Phthia; for between me and them there is a great space, both mountain and sounding sea. We have followed you, Sir Insolence! for your pleasure, not ours- to gain satisfaction from the Trojans for your shameless self and for Menelaus. You forget this, and threaten to rob me of the prize for which I have toiled, and which the sons of the Achaeans have given me. Never when the Achaeans sack any rich city of the Trojans do I receive so good a prize as you do, though it is my hands that do the better part of the fighting. When the sharing comes, your share is far the largest, and I, forsooth, must go back to my ships, take what I can get and be thankful, when my labour of fighting is done. Now, therefore, I shall go back to Phthia; it will be much better for me to return home with my ships, for I will not stay here dishonoured to gather gold and substance for you." And Agamemnon answered, "Fly if you will, I shall make you no prayers to stay you. I have others here who will do me honour, and above all Jove, the lord of counsel. There is no king here so hateful to me as you are, for you are ever quarrelsome and ill affected. What though you be brave? Was it not heaven that made you so? Go home, then, with your ships and comrades to lord it over the Myrmidons. I care neither for you nor for your anger; and thus will I do: since Phoebus Apollo is taking Chryseis from me, I shall send her with my ship and my followers, but I shall come to your tent and take your own prize Briseis, that you may learn how much stronger I am than you are, and that another may fear to set himself up as equal or comparable with me." The son of Peleus was furious, and his heart within his shaggy breast was divided whether to draw his sword, push the others aside, and kill the son of Atreus, or to restrain himself and check his anger. While he was thus in two minds, and was drawing his mighty sword from its scabbard, Minerva came down from heaven (for Juno had sent her in the love she bore to them both), and seized the son of Peleus by his yellow hair, visible to him alone, for of the others no man could see her. Achilles turned in amaze, and by the fire that flashed from her eyes at once knew that she was Minerva. "Why are you here," said he, "daughter of aegis-bearing Jove? To see the pride of Agamemnon, son of Atreus? Let me tell you- and it shall surely be- he shall pay for this insolence with his life." And Minerva said, "I come from heaven, if you will hear me, to bid you stay your anger. Juno has sent me, who cares for both of you alike. Cease, then, this brawling, and do not draw your sword; rail at him if you will, and your railing will not be vain, for I tell you- and it shall surely be- that you shall hereafter receive gifts three times as splendid by reason of this present insult. Hold, therefore, and obey." "Goddess," answered Achilles, "however angry a man may be, he must do as you two command him. This will be best, for the gods ever hear the prayers of him who has obeyed them." He stayed his hand on the silver hilt of his sword, and thrust it back into the scabbard as Minerva bade him. Then she went back to Olympus among the other gods, and to the house of aegis-bearing Jove. But the son of Peleus again began railing at the son of Atreus, for he was still in a rage. "Wine-bibber," he cried, "with the face of a dog and the heart of a hind, you never dare to go out with the host in fight, nor yet with our chosen men in ambuscade. You shun this as you do death itself. You had rather go round and rob his prizes from any man who contradicts you. You devour your people, for you are king over a feeble folk; otherwise, son of Atreus, henceforward you would insult no man. Therefore I say, and swear it with a great oath- nay, by this my sceptre which shalt sprout neither leaf nor shoot, nor bud anew from the day on which it left its parent stem upon the mountains- for the axe stripped it of leaf and bark, and now the sons of the Achaeans bear it as judges and guardians of the decrees of heaven- so surely and solemnly do I swear that hereafter they shall look fondly for Achilles and shall not find him. In the day of your distress, when your men fall dying by the murderous hand of Hector, you shall not know how to help them, and shall rend your heart with rage for the hour when you offered insult to the bravest of the Achaeans." With this the son of Peleus dashed his gold-bestudded sceptre on the ground and took his seat, while the son of Atreus was beginning fiercely from his place upon the other side. Then uprose smooth-tongued Nestor, the facile speaker of the Pylians, and the words fell from his lips sweeter than honey. Two generations of men born and bred in Pylos had passed away under his rule, and he was now reigning over the third. With all sincerity and goodwill, therefore, he addressed them thus:- "Of a truth," he said, "a great sorrow has befallen the Achaean land. Surely Priam with his sons would rejoice, and the Trojans be glad at heart if they could hear this quarrel between you two, who are so excellent in fight and counsel. I am older than either of you; therefore be guided by me. Moreover I have been the familiar friend of men even greater than you are, and they did not disregard my counsels. Never again can I behold such men as Pirithous and Dryas shepherd of his people, or as Caeneus, Exadius, godlike Polyphemus, and Theseus son of Aegeus, peer of the immortals. These were the mightiest men ever born upon this earth: mightiest were they, and when they fought the fiercest tribes of mountain savages they utterly overthrew them. I came from distant Pylos, and went about among them, for they would have me come, and I fought as it was in me to do. Not a man now living could withstand them, but they heard my words, and were persuaded by them. So be it also with yourselves, for this is the more excellent way. Therefore, Agamemnon, though you be strong, take not this girl away, for the sons of the Achaeans have already given her to Achilles; and you, Achilles, strive not further with the king, for no man who by the grace of Jove wields a sceptre has like honour with Agamemnon. You are strong, and have a goddess for your mother; but Agamemnon is stronger than you, for he has more people under him. Son of Atreus, check your anger, I implore you; end this quarrel with Achilles, who in the day of battle is a tower of strength to the Achaeans." And Agamemnon answered, "Sir, all that you have said is true, but this fellow must needs become our lord and master: he must be lord of all, king of all, and captain of all, and this shall hardly be. Granted that the gods have made him a great warrior, have they also given him the right to speak with railing?" Achilles interrupted him. "I should be a mean coward," he cried, "were I to give in to you in all things. Order other people about, not me, for I shall obey no longer. Furthermore I say- and lay my saying to your heart- I shall fight neither you nor any man about this girl, for those that take were those also that gave. But of all else that is at my ship you shall carry away nothing by force. Try, that others may see; if you do, my spear shall be reddened with your blood." When they had quarrelled thus angrily, they rose, and broke up the assembly at the ships of the Achaeans. The son of Peleus went back to his tents and ships with the son of Menoetius and his company, while Agamemnon drew a vessel into the water and chose a crew of twenty oarsmen. He escorted Chryseis on board and sent moreover a hecatomb for the god. And Ulysses went as captain. These, then, went on board and sailed their ways over the sea. But the son of Atreus bade the people purify themselves; so they purified themselves and cast their filth into the sea. Then they offered hecatombs of bulls and goats without blemish on the sea-shore, and the smoke with the savour of their sacrifice rose curling up towards heaven. Thus did they busy themselves throughout the host. But Agamemnon did not forget the threat that he had made Achilles, and called his trusty messengers and squires Talthybius and Eurybates. "Go," said he, "to the tent of Achilles, son of Peleus; take Briseis by the hand and bring her hither; if he will not give her I shall come with others and take her- which will press him harder." He charged them straightly further and dismissed them, whereon they went their way sorrowfully by the seaside, till they came to the tents and ships of the Myrmidons. They found Achilles sitting by his tent and his ships, and ill-pleased he was when he beheld them. They stood fearfully and reverently before him, and never a word did they speak, but he knew them and said, "Welcome, heralds, messengers of gods and men; draw near; my quarrel is not with you but with Agamemnon who has sent you for the girl Briseis. Therefore, Patroclus, bring her and give her to them, but let them be witnesses by the blessed gods, by mortal men, and by the fierceness of Agamemnon's anger, that if ever again there be need of me to save the people from ruin, they shall seek and they shall not find. Agamemnon is mad with rage and knows not how to look before and after that the Achaeans may fight by their ships in safety." Patroclus did as his dear comrade had bidden him. He brought Briseis from the tent and gave her over to the heralds, who took her with them to the ships of the Achaeans- and the woman was loth to go. Then Achilles went all alone by the side of the hoar sea, weeping and looking out upon the boundless waste of waters. He raised his hands in prayer to his immortal mother, "Mother," he cried, "you bore me doomed to live but for a little season; surely Jove, who thunders from Olympus, might have made that little glorious. It is not so. Agamemnon, son of Atreus, has done me dishonour, and has robbed me of my prize by force." As he spoke he wept aloud, and his mother heard him where she was sitting in the depths of the sea hard by the old man her father. Forthwith she rose as it were a grey mist out of the waves, sat down before him as he stood weeping, caressed him with her hand, and said, "My son, why are you weeping? What is it that grieves you? Keep it not from me, but tell me, that we may know it together." Achilles drew a deep sigh and said, "You know it; why tell you what you know well already? We went to Thebe the strong city of Eetion, sacked it, and brought hither the spoil. The sons of the Achaeans shared it duly among themselves, and chose lovely Chryseis as the meed of Agamemnon; but Chryses, priest of Apollo, came to the ships of the Achaeans to free his daughter, and brought with him a great ransom: moreover he bore in his hand the sceptre of Apollo, wreathed with a suppliant's wreath, and he besought the Achaeans, but most of all the two sons of Atreus who were their chiefs. "On this the rest of the Achaeans with one voice were for respecting the priest and taking the ransom that he offered; but not so Agamemnon, who spoke fiercely to him and sent him roughly away. So he went back in anger, and Apollo, who loved him dearly, heard his prayer. Then the god sent a deadly dart upon the Argives, and the people died thick on one another, for the arrows went everywhither among the wide host of the Achaeans. At last a seer in the fulness of his knowledge declared to us the oracles of Apollo, and I was myself first to say that we should appease him. Whereon the son of Atreus rose in anger, and threatened that which he has since done. The Achaeans are now taking the girl in a ship to Chryse, and sending gifts of sacrifice to the god; but the heralds have just taken from my tent the daughter of Briseus, whom the Achaeans had awarded to myself. "Help your brave son, therefore, if you are able. Go to Olympus, and if you have ever done him service in word or deed, implore the aid of Jove. Ofttimes in my father's house have I heard you glory in that you alone of the immortals saved the son of Saturn from ruin, when the others, with Juno, Neptune, and Pallas Minerva would have put him in bonds. It was you, goddess, who delivered him by calling to Olympus the hundred-handed monster whom gods call Briareus, but men Aegaeon, for he is stronger even than his father; when therefore he took his seat all-glorious beside the son of Saturn, the other gods were afraid, and did not bind him. Go, then, to him, remind him of all this, clasp his knees, and bid him give succour to the Trojans. Let the Achaeans be hemmed in at the sterns of their ships, and perish on the sea-shore, that they may reap what joy they may of their king, and that Agamemnon may rue his blindness in offering insult to the foremost of the Achaeans." Thetis wept and answered, "My son, woe is me that I should have borne or suckled you. Would indeed that you had lived your span free from all sorrow at your ships, for it is all too brief; alas, that you should be at once short of life and long of sorrow above your peers: woe, therefore, was the hour in which I bore you; nevertheless I will go to the snowy heights of Olympus, and tell this tale to Jove, if he will hear our prayer: meanwhile stay where you are with your ships, nurse your anger against the Achaeans, and hold aloof from fight. For Jove went yesterday to Oceanus, to a feast among the Ethiopians, and the other gods went with him. He will return to Olympus twelve days hence; I will then go to his mansion paved with bronze and will beseech him; nor do I doubt that I shall be able to persuade him." On this she left him, still furious at the loss of her that had been taken from him. Meanwhile Ulysses reached Chryse with the hecatomb. When they had come inside the harbour they furled the sails and laid them in the ship's hold; they slackened the forestays, lowered the mast into its place, and rowed the ship to the place where they would have her lie; there they cast out their mooring-stones and made fast the hawsers. They then got out upon the sea-shore and landed the hecatomb for Apollo; Chryseis also left the ship, and Ulysses led her to the altar to deliver her into the hands of her father. "Chryses," said he, "King Agamemnon has sent me to bring you back your child, and to offer sacrifice to Apollo on behalf of the Danaans, that we may propitiate the god, who has now brought sorrow upon the Argives." So saying he gave the girl over to her father, who received her gladly, and they ranged the holy hecatomb all orderly round the altar of the god. They washed their hands and took up the barley-meal to sprinkle over the victims, while Chryses lifted up his hands and prayed aloud on their behalf. "Hear me," he cried, "O god of the silver bow, that protectest Chryse and holy Cilla, and rulest Tenedos with thy might. Even as thou didst hear me aforetime when I prayed, and didst press hardly upon the Achaeans, so hear me yet again, and stay this fearful pestilence from the Danaans." Thus did he pray, and Apollo heard his prayer. When they had done praying and sprinkling the barley-meal, they drew back the heads of the victims and killed and flayed them. They cut out the thigh-bones, wrapped them round in two layers of fat, set some pieces of raw meat on the top of them, and then Chryses laid them on the wood fire and poured wine over them, while the young men stood near him with five-pronged spits in their hands. When the thigh-bones were burned and they had tasted the inward meats, they cut the rest up small, put the pieces upon the spits, roasted them till they were done, and drew them off: then, when they had finished their work and the feast was ready, they ate it, and every man had his full share, so that all were satisfied. As soon as they had had enough to eat and drink, pages filled the mixing-bowl with wine and water and handed it round, after giving every man his drink-offering. Thus all day long the young men worshipped the god with song, hymning him and chaunting the joyous paean, and the god took pleasure in their voices; but when the sun went down, and it came on dark, they laid themselves down to sleep by the stern cables of the ship, and when the child of morning, rosy-fingered Dawn, appeared they again set sail for the host of the Achaeans. Apollo sent them a fair wind, so they raised their mast and hoisted their white sails aloft. As the sail bellied with the wind the ship flew through the deep blue water, and the foam hissed against her bows as she sped onward. When they reached the wide-stretching host of the Achaeans, they drew the vessel ashore, high and dry upon the sands, set her strong props beneath her, and went their ways to their own tents and ships. But Achilles abode at his ships and nursed his anger. He went not to the honourable assembly, and sallied not forth to fight, but gnawed at his own heart, pining for battle and the war-cry. Now after twelve days the immortal gods came back in a body to Olympus, and Jove led the way. Thetis was not unmindful of the charge her son had laid upon her, so she rose from under the sea and went through great heaven with early morning to Olympus, where she found the mighty son of Saturn sitting all alone upon its topmost ridges. She sat herself down before him, and with her left hand seized his knees, while with her right she caught him under the chin, and besought him, saying- "Father Jove, if I ever did you service in word or deed among the immortals, hear my prayer, and do honour to my son, whose life is to be cut short so early. King Agamemnon has dishonoured him by taking his prize and keeping her. Honour him then yourself, Olympian lord of counsel, and grant victory to the Trojans, till the Achaeans give my son his due and load him with riches in requital." Jove sat for a while silent, and without a word, but Thetis still kept firm hold of his knees, and besought him a second time. "Incline your head," said she, "and promise me surely, or else deny me- for you have nothing to fear- that I may learn how greatly you disdain me." At this Jove was much troubled and answered, "I shall have trouble if you set me quarrelling with Juno, for she will provoke me with her taunting speeches; even now she is always railing at me before the other gods and accusing me of giving aid to the Trojans. Go back now, lest she should find out. I will consider the matter, and will bring it about as wish. See, I incline my head that you believe me. This is the most solemn that I can give to any god. I never recall my word, or deceive, or fail to do what I say, when I have nodded my head." As he spoke the son of Saturn bowed his dark brows, and the ambrosial locks swayed on his immortal head, till vast Olympus reeled. When the pair had thus laid their plans, they parted- Jove to his house, while the goddess quitted the splendour of Olympus, and plunged into the depths of the sea. The gods rose from their seats, before the coming of their sire. Not one of them dared to remain sitting, but all stood up as he came among them. There, then, he took his seat. But Juno, when she saw him, knew that he and the old merman's daughter, silver-footed Thetis, had been hatching mischief, so she at once began to upbraid him. "Trickster," she cried, "which of the gods have you been taking into your counsels now? You are always settling matters in secret behind my back, and have never yet told me, if you could help it, one word of your intentions." "Juno," replied the sire of gods and men, "you must not expect to be informed of all my counsels. You are my wife, but you would find it hard to understand them. When it is proper for you to hear, there is no one, god or man, who will be told sooner, but when I mean to keep a matter to myself, you must not pry nor ask questions." "Dread son of Saturn," answered Juno, "what are you talking about? I? Pry and ask questions? Never. I let you have your own way in everything. Still, I have a strong misgiving that the old merman's daughter Thetis has been talking you over, for she was with you and had hold of your knees this self-same morning. I believe, therefore, that you have been promising her to give glory to Achilles, and to kill much people at the ships of the Achaeans." "Wife," said Jove, "I can do nothing but you suspect me and find it out. You will take nothing by it, for I shall only dislike you the more, and it will go harder with you. Granted that it is as you say; I mean to have it so; sit down and hold your tongue as I bid you for if I once begin to lay my hands about you, though all heaven were on your side it would profit you nothing." On this Juno was frightened, so she curbed her stubborn will and sat down in silence. But the heavenly beings were disquieted throughout the house of Jove, till the cunning workman Vulcan began to try and pacify his mother Juno. "It will be intolerable," said he, "if you two fall to wrangling and setting heaven in an uproar about a pack of mortals. If such ill counsels are to prevail, we shall have no pleasure at our banquet. Let me then advise my mother- and she must herself know that it will be better- to make friends with my dear father Jove, lest he again scold her and disturb our feast. If the Olympian Thunderer wants to hurl us all from our seats, he can do so, for he is far the strongest, so give him fair words, and he will then soon be in a good humour with us." As he spoke, he took a double cup of nectar, and placed it in his mother's hand. "Cheer up, my dear mother," said he, "and make the best of it. I love you dearly, and should be very sorry to see you get a thrashing; however grieved I might be, I could not help for there is no standing against Jove. Once before when I was trying to help you, he caught me by the foot and flung me from the heavenly threshold. All day long from morn till eve, was I falling, till at sunset I came to ground in the island of Lemnos, and there I lay, with very little life left in me, till the Sintians came and tended me." Juno smiled at this, and as she smiled she took the cup from her son's hands. Then Vulcan drew sweet nectar from the mixing-bowl, and served it round among the gods, going from left to right; and the blessed gods laughed out a loud applause as they saw him ing bustling about the heavenly mansion. Thus through the livelong day to the going down of the sun they feasted, and every one had his full share, so that all were satisfied. Apollo struck his lyre, and the Muses lifted up their sweet voices, calling and answering one another. But when the sun's glorious light had faded, they went home to bed, each in his own abode, which lame Vulcan with his consummate skill had fashioned for them. So Jove, the Olympian Lord of Thunder, hied him to the bed in which he always slept; and when he had got on to it he went to sleep, with Juno of the golden throne by his side. Now the other gods and the armed warriors on the plain slept soundly, but Jove was wakeful, for he was thinking how to do honour to Achilles, and destroyed much people at the ships of the Achaeans. In the end he deemed it would be best to send a lying dream to King Agamemnon; so he called one to him and said to it, "Lying Dream, go to the ships of the Achaeans, into the tent of Agamemnon, and say to him word to word as I now bid you. Tell him to get the Achaeans instantly under arms, for he shall take Troy. There are no longer divided counsels among the gods; Juno has brought them to her own mind, and woe betides the Trojans." The dream went when it had heard its message, and soon reached the ships of the Achaeans. It sought Agamemnon son of Atreus and found him in his tent, wrapped in a profound slumber. It hovered over his head in the likeness of Nestor, son of Neleus, whom Agamemnon honoured above all his councillors, and said:- "You are sleeping, son of Atreus; one who has the welfare of his host and so much other care upon his shoulders should dock his sleep. Hear me at once, for I come as a messenger from Jove, who, though he be not near, yet takes thought for you and pities you. He bids you get the Achaeans instantly under arms, for you shall take Troy. There are no longer divided counsels among the gods; Juno has brought them over to her own mind, and woe betides the Trojans at the hands of Jove. Remember this, and when you wake see that it does not escape you." The dream then left him, and he thought of things that were, surely not to be accomplished. He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans. Then presently he woke, with the divine message still ringing in his ears; so he sat upright, and put on his soft shirt so fair and new, and over this his heavy cloak. He bound his sandals on to his comely feet, and slung his silver-studded sword about his shoulders; then he took the imperishable staff of his father, and sallied forth to the ships of the Achaeans. The goddess Dawn now wended her way to vast Olympus that she might herald day to Jove and to the other immortals, and Agamemnon sent the criers round to call the people in assembly; so they called them and the people gathered thereon. But first he summoned a meeting of the elders at the ship of Nestor king of Pylos, and when they were assembled he laid a cunning counsel before them. "My friends," said he, "I have had a dream from heaven in the dead of night, and its face and figure resembled none but Nestor's. It hovered over my head and said, 'You are sleeping, son of Atreus; one who has the welfare of his host and so much other care upon his shoulders should dock his sleep. Hear me at once, for I am a messenger from Jove, who, though he be not near, yet takes thought for you and pities you. He bids you get the Achaeans instantly under arms, for you shall take Troy. There are no longer divided counsels among the gods; Juno has brought them over to her own mind, and woe betides the Trojans at the hands of Jove. Remember this.' The dream then vanished and I awoke. Let us now, therefore, arm the sons of the Achaeans. But it will be well that I should first sound them, and to this end I will tell them to fly with their ships; but do you others go about among the host and prevent their doing so." He then sat down, and Nestor the prince of Pylos with all sincerity and goodwill addressed them thus: "My friends," said he, "princes and councillors of the Argives, if any other man of the Achaeans had told us of this dream we should have declared it false, and would have had nothing to do with it. But he who has seen it is the foremost man among us; we must therefore set about getting the people under arms." With this he led the way from the assembly, and the other sceptred kings rose with him in obedience to the word of Agamemnon; but the people pressed forward to hear. They swarmed like bees that sally from some hollow cave and flit in countless throng among the spring flowers, bunched in knots and clusters; even so did the mighty multitude pour from ships and tents to the assembly, and range themselves upon the wide-watered shore, while among them ran Wildfire Rumour, messenger of Jove, urging them ever to the fore. Thus they gathered in a pell-mell of mad confusion, and the earth groaned under the tramp of men as the people sought their places. Nine heralds went crying about among them to stay their tumult and bid them listen to the kings, till at last they were got into their several places and ceased their clamour. Then King Agamemnon rose, holding his sceptre. This was the work of Vulcan, who gave it to Jove the son of Saturn. Jove gave it to Mercury, slayer of Argus, guide and guardian. King Mercury gave it to Pelops, the mighty charioteer, and Pelops to Atreus, shepherd of his people. Atreus, when he died, left it to Thyestes, rich in flocks, and Thyestes in his turn left it to be borne by Agamemnon, that he might be lord of all Argos and of the isles. Leaning, then, on his sceptre, he addressed the Argives. "My friends," he said, "heroes, servants of Mars, the hand of heaven has been laid heavily upon me. Cruel Jove gave me his solemn promise that I should sack the city of Priam before returning, but he has played me false, and is now bidding me go ingloriously back to Argos with the loss of much people. Such is the will of Jove, who has laid many a proud city in the dust, as he will yet lay others, for his power is above all. It will be a sorry tale hereafter that an Achaean host, at once so great and valiant, battled in vain against men fewer in number than themselves; but as yet the end is not in sight. Think that the Achaeans and Trojans have sworn to a solemn covenant, and that they have each been numbered- the Trojans by the roll of their householders, and we by companies of ten; think further that each of our companies desired to have a Trojan householder to pour out their wine; we are so greatly more in number that full many a company would have to go without its cup-bearer. But they have in the town allies from other places, and it is these that hinder me from being able to sack the rich city of Ilius. Nine of Jove years are gone; the timbers of our ships have rotted; their tackling is sound no longer. Our wives and little ones at home look anxiously for our coming, but the work that we came hither to do has not been done. Now, therefore, let us all do as I say: let us sail back to our own land, for we shall not take Troy." With these words he moved the hearts of the multitude, so many of them as knew not the cunning counsel of Agamemnon. They surged to and fro like the waves of the Icarian Sea, when the east and south winds break from heaven's clouds to lash them; or as when the west wind sweeps over a field of corn and the ears bow beneath the blast, even so were they swayed as they flew with loud cries towards the ships, and the dust from under their feet rose heavenward. They cheered each other on to draw the ships into the sea; they cleared the channels in front of them; they began taking away the stays from underneath them, and the welkin rang with their glad cries, so eager were they to return. Then surely the Argives would have returned after a fashion that was not fated. But Juno said to Minerva, "Alas, daughter of aegis-bearing Jove, unweariable, shall the Argives fly home to their own land over the broad sea, and leave Priam and the Trojans the glory of still keeping Helen, for whose sake so many of the Achaeans have died at Troy, far from their homes? Go about at once among the host, and speak fairly to them, man by man, that they draw not their ships into the sea." Minerva was not slack to do her bidding. Down she darted from the topmost summits of Olympus, and in a moment she was at the ships of the Achaeans. There she found Ulysses, peer of Jove in counsel, standing alone. He had not as yet laid a hand upon his ship, for he was grieved and sorry; so she went close up to him and said, "Ulysses, noble son of Laertes, are you going to fling yourselves into your ships and be off home to your own land in this way? Will you leave Priam and the Trojans the glory of still keeping Helen, for whose sake so many of the Achaeans have died at Troy, far from their homes? Go about at once among the host, and speak fairly to them, man by man, that they draw not their ships into the sea." Ulysses knew the voice as that of the goddess: he flung his cloak from him and set off to run. His servant Eurybates, a man of Ithaca, who waited on him, took charge of the cloak, whereon Ulysses went straight up to Agamemnon and received from him his ancestral, imperishable staff. With this he went about among the ships of the Achaeans. Whenever he met a king or chieftain, he stood by him and spoke him fairly. "Sir," said he, "this flight is cowardly and unworthy. Stand to your post, and bid your people also keep their places. You do not yet know the full mind of Agamemnon; he was sounding us, and ere long will visit the Achaeans with his displeasure. We were not all of us at the council to hear what he then said; see to it lest he be angry and do us a mischief; for the pride of kings is great, and the hand of Jove is with them." But when he came across any common man who was making a noise, he struck him with his staff and rebuked him, saying, "Sirrah, hold your peace, and listen to better men than yourself. You are a coward and no soldier; you are nobody either in fight or council; we cannot all be kings; it is not well that there should be many masters; one man must be supreme- one king to whom the son of scheming Saturn has given the sceptre of sovereignty over you all." Thus masterfully did he go about among the host, and the people hurried back to the council from their tents and ships with a sound as the thunder of surf when it comes crashing down upon the shore, and all the sea is in an uproar. The rest now took their seats and kept to their own several places, but Thersites still went on wagging his unbridled tongue- a man of many words, and those unseemly; a monger of sedition, a railer against all who were in authority, who cared not what he said, so that he might set the Achaeans in a laugh. He was the ugliest man of all those that came before Troy- bandy-legged, lame of one foot, with his two shoulders rounded and hunched over his chest. His head ran up to a point, but there was little hair on the top of it. Achilles and Ulysses hated him worst of all, for it was with them that he was most wont to wrangle; now, however, with a shrill squeaky voice he began heaping his abuse on Agamemnon. The Achaeans were angry and disgusted, yet none the less he kept on brawling and bawling at the son of Atreus. "Agamemnon," he cried, "what ails you now, and what more do you want? Your tents are filled with bronze and with fair women, for whenever we take a town we give you the pick of them. Would you have yet more gold, which some Trojan is to give you as a ransom for his son, when I or another Achaean has taken him prisoner? or is it some young girl to hide and lie with? It is not well that you, the ruler of the Achaeans, should bring them into such misery. Weakling cowards, women rather than men, let us sail home, and leave this fellow here at Troy to stew in his own meeds of honour, and discover whether we were of any service to him or no. Achilles is a much better man than he is, and see how he has treated him- robbing him of his prize and keeping it himself. Achilles takes it meekly and shows no fight; if he did, son of Atreus, you would never again insult him." Thus railed Thersites, but Ulysses at once went up to him and rebuked him sternly. "Check your glib tongue, Thersites," said be, "and babble not a word further. Chide not with princes when you have none to back you. There is no viler creature come before Troy with the sons of Atreus. Drop this chatter about kings, and neither revile them nor keep harping about going home. We do not yet know how things are going to be, nor whether the Achaeans are to return with good success or evil. How dare you gibe at Agamemnon because the Danaans have awarded him so many prizes? I tell you, therefore- and it shall surely be- that if I again catch you talking such nonsense, I will either forfeit my own head and be no more called father of Telemachus, or I will take you, strip you stark naked, and whip you out of the assembly till you go blubbering back to the ships." On this he beat him with his staff about the back and shoulders till he dropped and fell a-weeping. The golden sceptre raised a bloody weal on his back, so he sat down frightened and in pain, looking foolish as he wiped the tears from his eyes. The people were sorry for him, yet they laughed heartily, and one would turn to his neighbour saying, "Ulysses has done many a good thing ere now in fight and council, but he never did the Argives a better turn than when he stopped this fellow's mouth from prating further. He will give the kings no more of his insolence." Thus said the people. Then Ulysses rose, sceptre in hand, and Minerva in the likeness of a herald bade the people be still, that those who were far off might hear him and consider his council. He therefore with all sincerity and goodwill addressed them thus:- "King Agamemnon, the Achaeans are for making you a by-word among all mankind. They forget the promise they made you when they set out from Argos, that you should not return till you had sacked the town of Troy, and, like children or widowed women, they murmur and would set off homeward. True it is that they have had toil enough to be disheartened. A man chafes at having to stay away from his wife even for a single month, when he is on shipboard, at the mercy of wind and sea, but it is now nine long years that we have been kept here; I cannot, therefore, blame the Achaeans if they turn restive; still we shall be shamed if we go home empty after so long a stay- therefore, my friends, be patient yet a little longer that we may learn whether the prophesyings of Calchas were false or true. "All who have not since perished must remember as though it were yesterday or the day before, how the ships of the Achaeans were detained in Aulis when we were on our way hither to make war on Priam and the Trojans. We were ranged round about a fountain offering hecatombs to the gods upon their holy altars, and there was a fine plane-tree from beneath which there welled a stream of pure water. Then we saw a prodigy; for Jove sent a fearful serpent out of the ground, with blood-red stains upon its back, and it darted from under the altar on to the plane-tree. Now there was a brood of young sparrows, quite small, upon the topmost bough, peeping out from under the leaves, eight in all, and their mother that hatched them made nine. The serpent ate the poor cheeping things, while the old bird flew about lamenting her little ones; but the serpent threw his coils about her and caught her by the wing as she was screaming. Then, when he had eaten both the sparrow and her young, the god who had sent him made him become a sign; for the son of scheming Saturn turned him into stone, and we stood there wondering at that which had come to pass. Seeing, then, that such a fearful portent had broken in upon our hecatombs, Calchas forthwith declared to us the oracles of heaven. 'Why, Achaeans,' said he, 'are you thus speechless? Jove has sent us this sign, long in coming, and long ere it be fulfilled, though its fame shall last for ever. As the serpent ate the eight fledglings and the sparrow that hatched them, which makes nine, so shall we fight nine years at Troy, but in the tenth shall take the town.' This was what he said, and now it is all coming true. Stay here, therefore, all of you, till we take the city of Priam." On this the Argives raised a shout, till the ships rang again with the uproar. Nestor, knight of Gerene, then addressed them. "Shame on you," he cried, "to stay talking here like children, when you should fight like men. Where are our covenants now, and where the oaths that we have taken? Shall our counsels be flung into the fire, with our drink-offerings and the right hands of fellowship wherein we have put our trust? We waste our time in words, and for all our talking here shall be no further forward. Stand, therefore, son of Atreus, by your own steadfast purpose; lead the Argives on to battle, and leave this handful of men to rot, who scheme, and scheme in vain, to get back to Argos ere they have learned whether Jove be true or a liar. For the mighty son of Saturn surely promised that we should succeed, when we Argives set sail to bring death and destruction upon the Trojans. He showed us favourable signs by flashing his lightning on our right hands; therefore let none make haste to go till he has first lain with the wife of some Trojan, and avenged the toil and sorrow that he has suffered for the sake of Helen. Nevertheless, if any man is in such haste to be at home again, let him lay his hand to his ship that he may meet his doom in the sight of all. But, O king, consider and give ear to my counsel, for the word that I say may not be neglected lightly. Divide your men, Agamemnon, into their several tribes and clans, that clans and tribes may stand by and help one another. If you do this, and if the Achaeans obey you, you will find out who, both chiefs and peoples, are brave, and who are cowards; for they will vie against the other. Thus you shall also learn whether it is through the counsel of heaven or the cowardice of man that you shall fail to take the town." And Agamemnon answered, "Nestor, you have again outdone the sons of the Achaeans in counsel. Would, by Father Jove, Minerva, and Apollo, that I had among them ten more such councillors, for the city of King Priam would then soon fall beneath our hands, and we should sack it. But the son of Saturn afflicts me with bootless wranglings and strife. Achilles and I are quarrelling about this girl, in which matter I was the first to offend; if we can be of one mind again, the Trojans will not stave off destruction for a day. Now, therefore, get your morning meal, that our hosts join in fight. Whet well your spears; see well to the ordering of your shields; give good feeds to your horses, and look your chariots carefully over, that we may do battle the livelong day; for we shall have no rest, not for a moment, till night falls to part us. The bands that bear your shields shall be wet with the sweat upon your shoulders, your hands shall weary upon your spears, your horses shall steam in front of your chariots, and if I see any man shirking the fight, or trying to keep out of it at the ships, there shall be no help for him, but he shall be a prey to dogs and vultures." Thus he spoke, and the Achaeans roared applause. As when the waves run high before the blast of the south wind and break on some lofty headland, dashing against it and buffeting it without ceasing, as the storms from every quarter drive them, even so did the Achaeans rise and hurry in all directions to their ships. There they lighted their fires at their tents and got dinner, offering sacrifice every man to one or other of the gods, and praying each one of them that he might live to come out of the fight. Agamemnon, king of men, sacrificed a fat five-year-old bull to the mighty son of Saturn, and invited the princes and elders of his host. First he asked Nestor and King Idomeneus, then the two Ajaxes and the son of Tydeus, and sixthly Ulysses, peer of gods in counsel; but Menelaus came of his own accord, for he knew how busy his brother then was. They stood round the bull with the barley-meal in their hands, and Agamemnon prayed, saying, "Jove, most glorious, supreme, that dwellest in heaven, and ridest upon the storm-cloud, grant that the sun may not go down, nor the night fall, till the palace of Priam is laid low, and its gates are consumed with fire. Grant that my sword may pierce the shirt of Hector about his heart, and that full many of his comrades may bite the dust as they fall dying round him." Thus he prayed, but the son of Saturn would not fulfil his prayer. He accepted the sacrifice, yet none the less increased their toil continually. When they had done praying and sprinkling the barley-meal upon the victim, they drew back its head, killed it, and then flayed it. They cut out the thigh-bones, wrapped them round in two layers of fat, and set pieces of raw meat on the top of them. These they burned upon the split logs of firewood, but they spitted the inward meats, and held them in the flames to cook. When the thigh-bones were burned, and they had tasted the inward meats, they cut the rest up small, put the pieces upon spits, roasted them till they were done, and drew them off; then, when they had finished their work and the feast was ready, they ate it, and every man had his full share, so that all were satisfied. As soon as they had had enough to eat and drink, Nestor, knight of Gerene, began to speak. "King Agamemnon," said he, "let us not stay talking here, nor be slack in the work that heaven has put into our hands. Let the heralds summon the people to gather at their several ships; we will then go about among the host, that we may begin fighting at once." Thus did he speak, and Agamemnon heeded his words. He at once sent the criers round to call the people in assembly. So they called them, and the people gathered thereon. The chiefs about the son of Atreus chose their men and marshalled them, while Minerva went among them holding her priceless aegis that knows neither age nor death. From it there waved a hundred tassels of pure gold, all deftly woven, and each one of them worth a hundred oxen. With this she darted furiously everywhere among the hosts of the Achaeans, urging them forward, and putting courage into the heart of each, so that he might fight and do battle without ceasing. Thus war became sweeter in their eyes even than returning home in their ships. As when some great forest fire is raging upon a mountain top and its light is seen afar, even so as they marched the gleam of their armour flashed up into the firmament of heaven. They were like great flocks of geese, or cranes, or swans on the plain about the waters of Cayster, that wing their way hither and thither, glorying in the pride of flight, and crying as they settle till the fen is alive with their screaming. Even thus did their tribes pour from ships and tents on to the plain of the Scamander, and the ground rang as brass under the feet of men and horses. They stood as thick upon the flower-bespangled field as leaves that bloom in summer. As countless swarms of flies buzz around a herdsman's homestead in the time of spring when the pails are drenched with milk, even so did the Achaeans swarm on to the plain to charge the Trojans and destroy them. The chiefs disposed their men this way and that before the fight began, drafting them out as easily as goatherds draft their flocks when they have got mixed while feeding; and among them went King Agamemnon, with a head and face like Jove the lord of thunder, a waist like Mars, and a chest like that of Neptune. As some great bull that lords it over the herds upon the plain, even so did Jove make the son of Atreus stand peerless among the multitude of heroes. And now, O Muses, dwellers in the mansions of Olympus, tell me- for you are goddesses and are in all places so that you see all things, while we know nothing but by report- who were the chiefs and princes of the Danaans? As for the common soldiers, they were so that I could not name every single one of them though I had ten tongues, and though my voice failed not and my heart were of bronze within me, unless you, O Olympian Muses, daughters of aegis-bearing Jove, were to recount them to me. Nevertheless, I will tell the captains of the ships and all the fleet together. Peneleos, Leitus, Arcesilaus, Prothoenor, and Clonius were captains of the Boeotians. These were they that dwelt in Hyria and rocky Aulis, and who held Schoenus, Scolus, and the highlands of Eteonus, with Thespeia, Graia, and the fair city of Mycalessus. They also held Harma, Eilesium, and Erythrae; and they had Eleon, Hyle, and Peteon; Ocalea and the strong fortress of Medeon; Copae, Eutresis, and Thisbe the haunt of doves; Coronea, and the pastures of Haliartus; Plataea and Glisas; the fortress of Thebes the less; holy Onchestus with its famous grove of Neptune; Arne rich in vineyards; Midea, sacred Nisa, and Anthedon upon the sea. From these there came fifty ships, and in each there were a hundred and twenty young men of the Boeotians. Ascalaphus and Ialmenus, sons of Mars, led the people that dwelt in Aspledon and Orchomenus the realm of Minyas. Astyoche a noble maiden bore them in the house of Actor son of Azeus; for she had gone with Mars secretly into an upper chamber, and he had lain with her. With these there came thirty ships. The Phoceans were led by Schedius and Epistrophus, sons of mighty Iphitus the son of Naubolus. These were they that held Cyparissus, rocky Pytho, holy Crisa, Daulis, and Panopeus; they also that dwelt in Anemorea and Hyampolis, and about the waters of the river Cephissus, and Lilaea by the springs of the Cephissus; with their chieftains came forty ships, and they marshalled the forces of the Phoceans, which were stationed next to the Boeotians, on their left. Ajax, the fleet son of Oileus, commanded the Locrians. He was not so great, nor nearly so great, as Ajax the son of Telamon. He was a little man, and his breastplate was made of linen, but in use of the spear he excelled all the Hellenes and the Achaeans. These dwelt in Cynus, Opous, Calliarus, Bessa, Scarphe, fair Augeae, Tarphe, and Thronium about the river Boagrius. With him there came forty ships of the Locrians who dwell beyond Euboea. The fierce Abantes held Euboea with its cities, Chalcis, Eretria, Histiaea rich in vines, Cerinthus upon the sea, and the rock-perched town of Dium; with them were also the men of Carystus and Styra; Elephenor of the race of Mars was in command of these; he was son of Chalcodon, and chief over all the Abantes. With him they came, fleet of foot and wearing their hair long behind, brave warriors, who would ever strive to tear open the corslets of their foes with their long ashen spears. Of these there came fifty ships. And they that held the strong city of Athens, the people of great Erechtheus, who was born of the soil itself, but Jove's daughter, Minerva, fostered him, and established him at Athens in her own rich sanctuary. There, year by year, the Athenian youths worship him with sacrifices of bulls and rams. These were commanded by Menestheus, son of Peteos. No man living could equal him in the marshalling of chariots and foot soldiers. Nestor could alone rival him, for he was older. With him there came fifty ships. Ajax brought twelve ships from Salamis, and stationed them alongside those of the Athenians. The men of Argos, again, and those who held the walls of Tiryns, with Hermione, and Asine upon the gulf; Troezene, Eionae, and the vineyard lands of Epidaurus; the Achaean youths, moreover, who came from Aegina and Mases; these were led by Diomed of the loud battle-cry, and Sthenelus son of famed Capaneus. With them in command was Euryalus, son of king Mecisteus, son of Talaus; but Diomed was chief over them all. With these there came eighty ships. Those who held the strong city of Mycenae, rich Corinth and Cleonae; Orneae, Araethyrea, and Licyon, where Adrastus reigned of old; Hyperesia, high Gonoessa, and Pellene; Aegium and all the coast-land round about Helice; these sent a hundred ships under the command of King Agamemnon, son of Atreus. His force was far both finest and most numerous, and in their midst was the king himself, all glorious in his armour of gleaming bronze- foremost among the heroes, for he was the greatest king, and had most men under him. And those that dwelt in Lacedaemon, lying low among the hills, Pharis, Sparta, with Messe the haunt of doves; Bryseae, Augeae, Amyclae, and Helos upon the sea; Laas, moreover, and Oetylus; these were led by Menelaus of the loud battle-cry, brother to Agamemnon, and of them there were sixty ships, drawn up apart from the others. Among them went Menelaus himself, strong in zeal, urging his men to fight; for he longed to avenge the toil and sorrow that he had suffered for the sake of Helen. The men of Pylos and Arene, and Thryum where is the ford of the river Alpheus; strong Aipy, Cyparisseis, and Amphigenea; Pteleum, Helos, and Dorium, where the Muses met Thamyris, and stilled his minstrelsy for ever. He was returning from Oechalia, where Eurytus lived and reigned, and boasted that he would surpass even the Muses, daughters of aegis-bearing Jove, if they should sing against him; whereon they were angry, and maimed him. They robbed him of his divine power of song, and thenceforth he could strike the lyre no more. These were commanded by Nestor, knight of Gerene, and with him there came ninety ships. And those that held Arcadia, under the high mountain of Cyllene, near the tomb of Aepytus, where the people fight hand to hand; the men of Pheneus also, and Orchomenus rich in flocks; of Rhipae, Stratie, and bleak Enispe; of Tegea and fair Mantinea; of Stymphelus and Parrhasia; of these King Agapenor son of Ancaeus was commander, and they had sixty ships. Many Arcadians, good soldiers, came in each one of them, but Agamemnon found them the ships in which to cross the sea, for they were not a people that occupied their business upon the waters. The men, moreover, of Buprasium and of Elis, so much of it as is enclosed between Hyrmine, Myrsinus upon the sea-shore, the rock Olene and Alesium. These had four leaders, and each of them had ten ships, with many Epeans on board. Their captains were Amphimachus and Thalpius- the one, son of Cteatus, and the other, of Eurytus- both of the race of Actor. The two others were Diores, son of Amarynces, and Polyxenus, son of King Agasthenes, son of Augeas. And those of Dulichium with the sacred Echinean islands, who dwelt beyond the sea off Elis; these were led by Meges, peer of Mars, and the son of valiant Phyleus, dear to Jove, who quarrelled with his father, and went to settle in Dulichium. With him there came forty ships. Ulysses led the brave Cephallenians, who held Ithaca, Neritum with its forests, Crocylea, rugged Aegilips, Samos and Zacynthus, with the mainland also that was over against the islands. These were led by Ulysses, peer of Jove in counsel, and with him there came twelve ships. Thoas, son of Andraemon, commanded the Aetolians, who dwelt in Pleuron, Olenus, Pylene, Chalcis by the sea, and rocky Calydon, for the great king Oeneus had now no sons living, and was himself dead, as was also golden-haired Meleager, who had been set over the Aetolians to be their king. And with Thoas there came forty ships. The famous spearsman Idomeneus led the Cretans, who held Cnossus, and the well-walled city of Gortys; Lyctus also, Miletus and Lycastus that lies upon the chalk; the populous towns of Phaestus and Rhytium, with the other peoples that dwelt in the hundred cities of Crete. All these were led by Idomeneus, and by Meriones, peer of murderous Mars. And with these there came eighty ships. Tlepolemus, son of Hercules, a man both brave and large of stature, brought nine ships of lordly warriors from Rhodes. These dwelt in Rhodes which is divided among the three cities of Lindus, Ielysus, and Cameirus, that lies upon the chalk. These were commanded by Tlepolemus, son of Hercules by Astyochea, whom he had carried off from Ephyra, on the river Selleis, after sacking many cities of valiant warriors. When Tlepolemus grew up, he killed his father's uncle Licymnius, who had been a famous warrior in his time, but was then grown old. On this he built himself a fleet, gathered a great following, and fled beyond the sea, for he was menaced by the other sons and grandsons of Hercules. After a voyage. during which he suffered great hardship, he came to Rhodes, where the people divided into three communities, according to their tribes, and were dearly loved by Jove, the lord, of gods and men; wherefore the son of Saturn showered down great riches upon them. And Nireus brought three ships from Syme- Nireus, who was the handsomest man that came up under Ilius of all the Danaans after the son of Peleus- but he was a man of no substance, and had but a small following. And those that held Nisyrus, Crapathus, and Casus, with Cos, the city of Eurypylus,